4age FWD to RWD

[Omni86]

Engine: 4age
From: FWD 87 Coroll FX
Into: RWD 87 Corolla GTS(AE86)

As I go I plan to update with pics and will edit into a DIY thread at the end.

Plan: Strip FX njun down to long block.
Remove: FX *water pump and *timing gear to replace with RWD.

I've found a number of sites that cover this conversion in good to decent detail, I will post reffences at some point.*

My Questions:
1-Distributor. Do I need to use my RWD gts Dizzy or will the FX's work? Plug caps face different directions. Other than that I would imagine the interals, gear/igniter are the same?
2-That thing I'm forgetting.

Q:1
FWD RWD

[gzus13]

The distributor should work fine - I don't think you'll need to change that. The intake manifold is different, but since they are both big port, the AE86 one should bolt right up to the engine. Swap the AE86 timing cover over too - that way you won't have the hole for the engine mount in it. And make sure you use the AE86 oil pan and pickup - they are different on the FWD version.

One thing to note because you are changing the water pump to RWD - the offset off the block of the FWD drive pump pulley is different, so the drive pulley may not line up (I know it's different on the hi-comp and 20v motors, but on a big port FWD I could be mistaken - just something to check). I think your best bet is to swap over the crank pulley and all of the accessory brackets and then everything should line up.

Other than those minor things, the engines themselves should be identical.

[ga_goosh]

you will have to change your water inlet and the heater water outlet on the back of the head since the fwd version will probably hit the fire wall and the hard coolant lines from under the intake should be used to match up with the heater hoses. dont forget the transmission braces too. if you are running an electric cooling fan then you really dont have to change the water pump and pulleys. distributor is the same too. if you have to pass smog or emissions testing then you will have to use the RWD egr parts too

[Omni86]

Thanks for the input.

*Oil pan/pick up I was not aware of.
I will be using a rwd 4a crank pulley *water pump and fan pulley setup. Electric fans eventually.
*I read that the fwd water pump is prone to fail with rwd setup, not sure if elec fan corrects issue.
Pulleys do need to be swapped for alignment.

All of the vacuum/water lines and egr will be swapped from rwd setup as well.
Same for p/s unit, no a/c on gts.
Check on timing cover and dizzy-I could switch caps but identical unit.

Alternator and oil cooler I need to go over. Starting pulls tomorrow.

[ga_goosh]

not sure if elec fan corrects issue.

yes the efan will correct this issue. the mechanical fan puts extra stress on the water pump which is why the RWD water pump is bigger and has more support ribs.

[Omni86]

Thanks gagoosh. I haven't efficiently looked into it, rwd vs fwd pump/efan-cooling and force tolerance on rwd n such.
A write up mentioned fwd pump is prone to fail over 5.5k rpm even with efan I believe. As you mentioned Rwd has more ribs, more reinforcement and balance maybe..bbq sauce. Swapped my gts pump to be sure. Had just bought a Toy pump and alt and finaly a optima battery then cracked a piston soon after...Then ceased the 7age 3 days in...

Alternator mounts are different. Fwd setup sits too high and obstructs Rwd water pump/radiator hose.
Block Thermostat is different in part with w/p therm housing. Will post pics.

Again thanks for input.

[ga_goosh]

no the thermostats are the same it is the gasket that is different i would use the fwd anyways to control your efan if you go that route.

here is a thread about the water pump differences
http://www.86garage.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=5057

[Omni86]

Regarding Thermostat. Ill post a pic later, basicaly the block connector is different. One is like a clip the other male/female.
For now having to go with mechanical fan so went all original rwd parts. Thanks again
, looking forward to efans!

Regarding Oil pan/pickup. They looked the exact same other than oil cooler line fittings and filter plate which I swapped rwd fittings/plate(not that it matters)...and for other reasons kept fwd oil pan/pickup. Bad?

Engine was in need of a full rebuild at 275k og motor at the time...but I found a AEmAEzzzzing mountain road close to where I was working..... Over the course of 5 weeks I couldn't resist revisiting it time...and time again...etc...
I became excited to the notion of the extent of the ol njuns limit. Stopped as soon as i started seeing smoke not from oil being rocked. Made it 50/150 miles towards home and....noises started happening lol...
Cracked #3 piston and turned #2 crank bearing into shrapnel... oil catch plate was...rittled with holes and dented...metal fragments all over oil pan.

[AE25]

Regarding Oil pan/pickup. They looked the exact same other than oil cooler line fittings and filter plate which I swapped rwd fittings/plate(not that it matters)...and for other reasons kept fwd oil pan/pickup. Bad?

Thats because they're the same between rwd/fwd bluetop. even the epc says so lol.
http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_J_1984_T ... _1105.html
http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_J_1984_T ... _1105.html
we've never swapped sumps or oil pickups converting to rwd. we don't bother using the rwd thermostat or pump either. Can hook up a remote ae92 thermostat under the intake manifold with modified water hoses and run an e-fan.
Also ae82 and ae86 heater housing on back of head protrude the same amount. the ae86 has a longer steel pipe out of it but ae82 housing can still be used. the aw11? and ae92 housings protrude out further.

this is a smallport 4agze with ae92 thermostat


bluetop with ae82 thermostat which is harder to setup.. the ae82 heater pipe faces toward the block which was modified here.. as was the throttle body water piping. put a restrictor in the heater hose if not using the heater.


the parts that must definately be swapped are the intake/exhaust manifolds (or cut/shut the fwd intake).
also need to put a spigot bearing in the crank. fit the rwd engine mounts and gearbox brackets etc. the engine backing plate has slight difference around the lower section bolt holes for fwd gearbox but the 4 main bolts and starter are the same. rwd mounts and backing plate can be sourced from rwd 3au from aa60, ae85 or ae70.
Hell, with the excepton of rwd engine mounts and gearbox braces, buy some rwd extractors and cut'n'shut or quad throttle the intake and you don't need a rwd donor 4age at all. food for thought

[AE25]

A write up mentioned fwd pump is prone to fail over 5.5k rpm even with efan I believe. As you mentioned Rwd has more ribs, more reinforcement and balance maybe..bbq sauce.

so someone is saying all ae82, aw11, ae92, ae101 and ae111 4age's will break the water pump above 5.5k rpm Sounds like this write up got confused with mounting a mech fan on the fwd pump.
the ae82 pump has the least ribbing so if any are to fail it's that.

all fwd water pump pully are interchangeable. only rwd that has a different offset. alternator and crank pulley are all same offset between rwd/fwd! its just the rwd water pump thats different.

[taroroot]

I'm famous as the rev limit bouncer at our rally-x's. During my runs the 4AGE in my AE82 FX16 is practically living beyond 5.5k with OEM spec FWD pump with no problems. True it's only 60-90 seconds maybe 15 times over the course of a day.

[ga_goosh]

all fwd water pump pully are interchangeable. only rwd that has a different offset. alternator and crank pulley are all same offset between rwd/fwd! its just the rwd water pump thats different.

the alternator pulley is the only pulley that is interchangable. that is due to the alt bracket changing the location of the alternator itself. the FWD crank pulleys deffinately have a different offset and are not compatable with RWD pulleys

[AE25]

ga_goosh, so you've measured a difference in offset between rwd/fwd crank pulley or are you assuming because the water pump pulley is different? The belt still runs the same offset between rwd/fwd which is why you can use a rwd setup on a fwd engine without changing the crank pulley. the rwd pump pulley is only offset because the pump is longer.

My bad, the exception being the blacktop 20v crank pulley due to it's wider cam belt gear than the other 4age. the other fwd 4age crank pulleys interchange. part number of 13470-16030.

[ga_goosh]

yes actually. i have a RWD ae86 pulley and a ae92 FWD pulley. at quick glance they do appear to look very similar but if you install them and look down the pulley in a matter that you could see the alignment of the pulleys and v belt then it is noticeable that they just wont line up by mixing and matching. let me get a couple pics of the 2 pulleys next to eachother with some measurements

ae86 pulley:13470-16010
aw11 pulley:13470-16020
ae92 pulley:13470-16030
ae101/ae111 pulley:13470-16120

[AE25]

interesting. measurements would be good.
sorry to the OP for the thread tangent
i've just measured the offset difference between the rwd ae86 pulley and fwd ae82 pulley. I have both engines in my shed. they both measure within 1mm of offset using a ruler from the oil pump housing in two different locations. and they're definately a different pulley because the accessory pulley has a smaller diameter on the ae86 whereas the ae82 has same diameter which could explain the part number difference. If you're adamant there's a noticeable difference i might have to confirm it once and for all by setting them all up on the height gauge at work for comparison. im only missing aw11 and ae92 from the list below.

looking at toyodiy i get the following numbers.
ae86 pulley: 13470-16010
aw11 pulley: 13470-16020
ae82 pulley: 13470-16030
ae92 pulley: 13470-16030 big and smallport
ae101 pulley:13470-16030 20v silvertop
ae111 pulley:13470-16120 20v blacktop

[asjoseph]

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