She won't start (fuel related)

gottolovem
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She won't start (fuel related)

Postby gottolovem » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:07 pm

Early model 87 fx-gts (blue top.)

This car is an all original daily driver. Symptoms are one day it dies from lack of fuel a mile from home,was able to coast back home(all downhill). The next day i try again runs fine but dies 1/2 a mile from home coasted back again. Now the car only briefly starts to "spend" whatever vapor has gathered in manifold then dies. I have the FSM for the motor and have gone through most of it's various checks. Have already changed the fuel filter and fuel regulator to no avail.

EFI fuse good
main relay good
fuel filter new
fuel regulator new
fuel pressure checks out good @ the rail
The car starts with a snort of go juice, so i know i have spark and the timing is good.

It should be noted that this is a early model AE-82 with the diagnostic ports hanging out of the loom rather than the kick panel or strut tower locations.(took me forever to figure that one out :? ). At this point i'm thinking injectors? Is their a fuel relay i'm missing?

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CloudStrife
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Re: She won't start (fuel related)

Postby CloudStrife » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:25 pm

If you have the FSM, they're are a bunch of flow-charts and diag practices for the Injectors. Measure resistance, engage the injectors and make sure they pulse, etc. etc.
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davew7
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Re: She won't start (fuel related)

Postby davew7 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:07 am

It sound like an electrical issue. Odds are low that ALL the injectors are plug up with $hit at one time. I would first just try cleaning the ground connections for the injectors. If that does not solve the problem you should verify that the injectors are getting a signal. Use a noid lite or a VOM [not digital] that you have a signal at the injector. Davew7

gottolovem
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Re: She won't start (fuel related)

Postby gottolovem » Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:36 am

Stethoscope to each injector while cranking and nothing.
I'll check grounds but I suspect their good. Is the EFI relay what signals the injectors to fire or is their another relay I'm missing?

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CloudStrife
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Re: She won't start (fuel related)

Postby CloudStrife » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:49 am

Does the FX-16 have a resistor pack for the injectors? If they do, there will be a finned silver square resistor box with Toyo water-proof plug (yellow/green). People commonly forget to hook this back up.
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jondee86
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Re: She won't start (fuel related)

Postby jondee86 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:36 pm

gottolovem wrote:Stethoscope to each injector while cranking and nothing.
I'll check grounds but I suspect their good. Is the EFI relay what signals the
injectors to fire or is their another relay I'm missing?

Injectors get 12V when the ignition key is turned to ON. They are switched to ground
momentarily by the ECU when the engine is cranking or running. If you don't have 12V
at the injectors, or the ECU grounds are bad/disconnected. the injectors will not fire.

Cheers... jondee86
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gottolovem
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Re: She won't start (fuel related)

Postby gottolovem » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:47 pm

jondee86 wrote:
gottolovem wrote:Stethoscope to each injector while cranking and nothing.
I'll check grounds but I suspect their good. Is the EFI relay what signals the
injectors to fire or is their another relay I'm missing?

Injectors get 12V when the ignition key is turned to ON. They are switched to ground
momentarily by the ECU when the engine is cranking or running. If you don't have 12V
at the injectors, or the ECU grounds are bad/disconnected. the injectors will not fire.

Cheers... jondee86
with the key on I get nothing at injectors with volt meter.
CloudStrife wrote:Does the FX-16 have a resistor pack for the injectors? If they do, there will be a finned silver square resistor box with Toyo water-proof plug (yellow/green). People commonly forget to hook this back up.
It does have the resistor pack it's never been unplugged. This FX is as it was the day it rolled off the line.

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Re: She won't start (fuel related)

Postby CloudStrife » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:26 pm

This might be sort of obvious, but is your fuel gauge working correctly?
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jondee86
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Re: She won't start (fuel related)

Postby jondee86 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:37 pm

gottolovem wrote:]with the key on I get nothing at injectors with volt meter.

If you can't get 12V from the injector clip to chassis ground, then you have a power
supply problem. You will need to backtrack to the ignition switch as I am 99% sure
that's where the 12V for the injectors comes from. The wire that you are tracking is
likely to be black with an orange stripe.

There may be a problem with the switch... they can get loose wires/contacts Or there
may be a problem with the supply to the switch. The supply wire is likely to be black
with a red stripe and come from one of the fusible links that sit on the battery positive
terminal connector.

Check that the supply wire is actually sending 12V to the keyswitch (the wire should
be live at all times).

Cheers... jondee86
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gottolovem
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Re: She won't start (fuel related)

Postby gottolovem » Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:54 pm

gottolovem wrote:]with the key on I get nothing at injectors with volt meter.



I must apologize for this post my volt meter was not grounded properly :roll:

Both wires to each injector ARE getting 12V

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jondee86
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Re: She won't start (fuel related)

Postby jondee86 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:35 pm

- Check you have 12V at the coil positive when the key is ON.
- Check that the igniter has a good contact with the mounting bracket and that the
bracket is firmly bolted down to clean metal (no layer of rust under the clamp). The
igniter grounds thru its outer metal casing and needs to have a good ground contact.
- Check the wires that come out of the the distributor for damage, breaks or soft
cover that indicates the wire inside has fatigued from movement and broken.

If the ECU does not get an rpm signal from the distributor after a couple of seconds
it won't fire the injectors as it thinks the engine has stalled.

Cheers... jondee86
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gottolovem
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Re: She won't start (fuel related)

Postby gottolovem » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:06 am

jondee86 wrote:- Check you have 12V at the coil positive when the key is ON.
- Check that the igniter has a good contact with the mounting bracket and that the
bracket is firmly bolted down to clean metal (no layer of rust under the clamp). The
igniter grounds thru its outer metal casing and needs to have a good ground contact.
- Check the wires that come out of the the distributor for damage, breaks or soft
cover that indicates the wire inside has fatigued from movement and broken.

If the ECU does not get an rpm signal from the distributor after a couple of seconds
it won't fire the injectors as it thinks the engine has stalled.

Cheers... jondee86


Sorry for the delay had to put the car on the back burner for a while.

All grounds check out as do the dissy wires, their is 12v @ coil with key on.

If I turn the motor over with coil wire grounded i only get a single spark at the END of the "cranking" cycle. So i swapped out coil with new one with no result. Still just One crack of the high tension wire at the end of the cycle.

This thing has me really frustrated :x i consider myself handy with a wrench! I suppose i need a lesson in first gen fuel injection

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jondee86
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Re: She won't start (fuel related)

Postby jondee86 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:05 pm

The sparl occurs when 12V is removed from the coil and the field produced by the
primary winding collapses. One spark when you let go of the key suggests that the
igniter is not switching the coil to ground. So check that all wires/plugs connected
to the igniter are good. Double check the igniter outer casing has a good ground
to the chassis.

Have you tried hooking up another battery with jumper wires to make sure that
you are getting solid 12V out of your battery when attempting to start ?

Cheers... jondee86
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taroroot
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Re: She won't start (fuel related)

Postby taroroot » Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:32 pm

Are you sure about fuel pressure? I've had to change the pump on my various FX16s a number of times. The last one I found out the pickup screen filter thing had disintegrated. Kinda a PIA though, you need to drop the tank. The access panel under the rear seat is for the fuel sender. Try not to munge the high pressure flex hose section that connects to the tank/pump output. It's no longer available from Toyota parts.

gottolovem
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Re: She won't start (fuel related)

Postby gottolovem » Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:34 am

Figured it out.
The dizzy had oil seal leak causing continuity issues. No spark = no fuel.

Thanks for all the advice thing to help out :ugeek:

Suppose I will need to teach myself early fuel injection systems before i do an engine swap. I'm an old carburetor guy.


Thanks again

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Rogue-AE95
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Re: She won't start (fuel related)

Postby Rogue-AE95 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:36 pm

You can buy distributor oil seal replacement kits, from at least two different sources. Kbox in Canada, and Matrix Garage in the US.
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