New AE86 restomod Daily Driver

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Hipcat
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New AE86 restomod Daily Driver

Postby Hipcat » Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:46 am

Hello everyone! I just started a new restomod project and wanted to introduce myself. My wish list includes suspension upgrades, custom interior, paint and a 4AGTE build. I’ll update pictures and videos as parts arrive. So far I have the new ECU, body kit and bushings. Coilovers are in the works. Exhaust should be here today. Wheels by the beginning of next week. Alarm system with keyless entry went in same day. I was in a hurry so don’t have pictures of that. However if anyone would like to see how I did mine I’d be happy to grab some pictures.

Cheers!

Hip

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Last edited by Hipcat on Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:01 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: New AE86 restomod Daily Driver

Postby Jayrdee » Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:56 am

Damn! Sounds like you're already well on your way!

Side note, flickr is a good option if you want to embed pictures onto your posts without having to click on a link.
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Re: New AE86 restomod Daily Driver

Postby Hipcat » Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:01 am

Jayrdee wrote:Damn! Sounds like you're already well on your way!

Side note, flickr is a good option if you want to embed pictures onto your posts without having to click on a link.

I’ll sign up for Flickr now. Friggin fraggin photobucket mumble grumble........

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Re: New AE86 restomod Daily Driver

Postby Hipcat » Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:59 pm

Ahhh new bushings! They make old cars feel brand new. Best spent money in maintenance/upgrade items. Image

New windshield. I wish I could wait until after paint, but I need to drive it around for pre build dyno and e-test.
Image

New ecu MSPNP.
Image
You can see the Map sensor port here.
Image
New exhaust. I drive late at night so a quiet exhaust was a must.
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Last edited by Hipcat on Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New AE86 restomod Daily Driver

Postby Autohaus_Z » Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:46 pm

Welcome! I'd rethink forced induction. If you want a power car this is the wrong chassis. BEAMS swap can be drop in and A LOT less headache than trying to go turbo.
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Re: New AE86 restomod Daily Driver

Postby Hipcat » Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:02 pm

Autohaus_Z wrote:Welcome! I'd rethink forced induction. If you want a power car this is the wrong chassis. BEAMS swap can be drop in and A LOT less headache than trying to go turbo.


Thanks! Glad to be here! The turbo isn't to make it a monster, just to keep it relevant to modern cars. It's not going to be dragster power, think more rally inspired. Most likely something around a CT27 from ATS.

Not that I'm scared of 3S's. Here's one of my 3SGTE builds.
Image
The 4AGE will be a blast to work with.

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Re: New AE86 restomod Daily Driver

Postby Jayrdee » Tue May 01, 2018 8:13 am

Good choice on the exhaust! You should post up pics and let us know what you think of it after its installed. I've had my eyes on the HKS Sport for a while now.
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Re: New AE86 restomod Daily Driver

Postby Hipcat » Tue May 01, 2018 8:56 am

Jayrdee wrote:Good choice on the exhaust! You should post up pics and let us know what you think of it after its installed. I've had my eyes on the HKS Sport for a while now.



Gladly! It came with hardware and I’m extremely impressed with the build quality for this price point. I’m not sure what the grade is on the hardware however the bolts look forged and coated.

I hope to start on the bushings tomorrow. It should be a simple matter to install the exhaust while parts are removed.

You certainly can’t find fault with HKS’s packing job.
Image

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Re: New AE86 restomod Daily Driver

Postby Hipcat » Fri May 04, 2018 6:46 am

A fellow enthusiast happened to have some low back blue seats. They look like they are in great shape.
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Re: New AE86 restomod Daily Driver

Postby grappletech » Sat May 05, 2018 5:17 pm

Nice start. I also went with the HKS Sport but its for my Beams swap. Everything is coming along quite well. Keep it up! I look forward to seeing more updates
87 GTS Coupe Super Duper Clean
87 GTS Coupe Beams 3sge (under construction cuz I'm slow and lazy and broke-FML)
87 SR5 Coupe Shell. (Sold)
86 SR5 Hatch Shell (waiting on a 20v or BEAMS to come cheaply. hell maybe even a 4agze?!)

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Re: New AE86 restomod Daily Driver

Postby jinx » Sun May 06, 2018 2:59 pm

u r off to a good start. Will that HKS exhaust not strangle a 4agte.... looks kinda small
I'd rethink forced induction. If you want a power car this is the wrong chassis. BEAMS swap can be drop in and A LOT less headache than trying to go turbo.

Nothing transform a street corolla like boost. Proven from 14s to 10sec monsters on basicly stock chasis + relatively 'simple' builds.
Heck yeah, fab skilz definitely required
4Agte best fit, smaller, lighter, easier to work on, parts availability, quieter and waaayyyy faster than any beams
Pick ur poison; acceleration to match your handling & brakes
No more boring slow noisy pos = wrong chasis ??

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Re: New AE86 restomod Daily Driver

Postby Hipcat » Tue May 08, 2018 2:29 pm

jinx wrote:u r off to a good start. Will that HKS exhaust not strangle a 4agte.... looks kinda small


It’s big enough to get the job done! That’s what she sai.............never mind

jinx wrote:
I'd rethink forced induction. If you want a power car this is the wrong chassis. BEAMS swap can be drop in and A LOT less headache than trying to go turbo.

Nothing transform a street corolla like boost. Proven from 14s to 10sec monsters on basicly stock chasis + relatively 'simple' builds.
Heck yeah, fab skilz definitely required
4Agte best fit, smaller, lighter, easier to work on, parts availability, quieter and waaayyyy faster than any beams
Pick ur poison; acceleration to match your handling & brakes
No more boring slow noisy pos = wrong chasis ??


Thanks for the encouragement! In honor of that: here are the new pistons CP. hooray!

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Re: New AE86 restomod Daily Driver

Postby Hipcat » Wed May 09, 2018 2:39 pm

Waiting on the H Beam rods.......
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Re: New AE86 restomod Daily Driver

Postby oldeskewltoy » Wed May 09, 2018 8:33 pm

Hipcat wrote:
Thanks for the encouragement! In honor of that: here are the new pistons CP. hooray!

Image


CR? Cams? Headwork??
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

Building a great engine takes knowing the end... before you begin :ugeek:

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Re: New AE86 restomod Daily Driver

Postby Hipcat » Thu May 10, 2018 3:49 am

oldeskewltoy wrote:
Hipcat wrote:
Thanks for the encouragement! In honor of that: here are the new pistons CP. hooray!

Image


CR? Cams? Headwork??


I don’t want to give away too much: But to answer your questions in order. 9.0:1, as smooth of idling I can get away with and 1mm oversized and ported. I’m happy to answer questions about why I choose certain parts but keep in mind I live in the mile high city we build engines a little different then at sea level. :D :D :D :D :D

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Re: New AE86 restomod Daily Driver

Postby Hipcat » Thu May 10, 2018 6:04 am

The rods arrived.

I'm going to start getting into build specifics for those of you who want meat with all this eye candy.

I purchased the CX connecting rods. I've never purchased any CX racing items before. I did it now for several reasons. The first reason was for me to check if they actually STOCK the parts they offer or if they are dropped shipped. The second is to see how accurate the description of their products is. Third they are the closest I could find to my beloved Eagle rods. Lastly is to check quality to see if I would be willing to purchase their bolt in turbo kit to use on a daily driver.

When the package arrived I wasn't too impressed with the way it was packed. All things fair however rods are probably tougher than any thing they may be dropped on during the trip here.
Image

Just cardboard separating the rods.

Image

I would like to have seen them shipped in a different way so there was no possibility of damaging the bearing contact areas, however they arrived in good shape. They were well packaged in plastic with good anti-corrosion applied.
Image

Here are the specs from the CX racing website.

Forged Aircraft 4340 Steel, Highest Level of Strength, Racing Spec
High Performance, Supports 600 HP

- Rod Length: 4.803" , 122mm
- Piston Pin Dia: 0.787" , 20mm
- P.E. Width: 0.860" , 21.85mm
- B.E Bore: 1.772" , 45mm
- B.E. Width: 0.860" , 21.85mm
- Material: 4340 Steel
- Appr. Weight: 395(g)
- Bolts (Not Included): 3/8"

I don't like when they list horsepower however it sells rods better. Some of the more expensive rods only listed horsepower WITHOUT SPECS!

In summary CP pistons with CX racing rods are as similar as I can get to my typical JE piston Eagle rod combo, I normally use.

If engine specifics bore you, I have bad news, because here we GO!
First off we need to talk about fuel octane, altitude and how it effects engine knock. In Colorado our premium gas is 91 octane. That works fine in high performance engines with our 17-20% less oxygen then you have at sea level. In fact it makes engines run more efficient. For this reason most new car spy photos are taken here in Colorado. So car manufactures can show better gas mileage numbers on test cars. However there is always a trade off and in this case that is horsepower.

It's not only effected by the lack of oxygen but also by air pressure. At sea level you have around 14.7 psi atmospheric pressure here in Denver 12. On a normally aspirated engine those two factor can equal as high as a 30% power loss. Hence the appeal of boosted engines. So why not superchargers? More torque right? Well here we have another complication. Superchargers are a set speed not pressure. Which is fine if you spend all your time around sea level. However our roads are as high as 10,000 feet and we drive to sea level every so often. So you have a risk of not having your engine stoich. Many finely tuned supercharged vehicles will have to be retuned to drive to sea level. I need to take time here to step on a soap box and voice my frustration when I see bar boost gauges for this reason. Bar is a measuring device but it's cumulative, so one bar on a boost gauge is actually 2 bar. Take for instance "outer space" referred to as a "vacuum". It's not. It's a lack of pressure. Just like Cold isn't a thing it's a lack of heat.
.
Still awake?

Now lets look at turbos. They are controlled by manifold pressure without cumulative reliance on static outside air pressure (See airplanes :D ). Then all that's left to overcome is the oxygen % which a good aftermarket ECU can handle. And if you oversize your injectors slightly you'll be just fine when traveling to sea level.

Now here comes the real meat of the subject, hard numbers and testing. On most rally inspired engines (2.0L) we can see numbers as high as 400hp on our 91 octane pump gas. That's at a typical 10.0:1 CR nearing the high 20s psi boosted. Anything over 30psi and you will TYPICALLY get knock. For those of you who may be reading this and are new to engine tuning, octane is a rating based on the level of heat fuel will reach before combustion occurs. If the octane rating is too low, the fuel will ignite before the spark plug fires. In this event you have ignition while the piston is on the compression stroke thus shocking the engine internals possibly causing damage.

I don't want or care to daily drive a 400hp 86. It would be foolish with the snow we get here. So I feel that a low 300ish range is good to balance the intention of the car along with keeping the newer factory turbo cars in the rearview mirror. So you may be asking why i would choose parts like this for 300hp only. For me I feel like a Toyota should always be reliable ( I currently daily an EVO 9 nuff said). Toyota used to have a model of 75-80% of capability to retain reliability.

NOW we take all these factors in consideration and we arrive at this: I build the weakest of my components to be near the 600hp mark. Plan on it never exceeding 400hp at sea level with a daily HP of 300ish to the wheels at a mile high. I achieve this with bumping down the 1.6L from a typical 10.0:1 to A 9.0:1 to avoid knock. Boost to high 20s with injectors at around a 70% duty cycle. Hope you enjoyed this taste. I will show you more as I do it. CHEERS!

Hip

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Re: New AE86 restomod Daily Driver

Postby Hipcat » Thu May 10, 2018 7:33 am

GEAR HEAD BONUS!!

For all of you out there who love engines, I wanted to pass on my feelings about T-VIS. It's one of the reasons I chose an AE86. Now some high power Toyota tuners will remove it (which is fine for high HP cars), but it has a great benefit for turbo engines. It is amazing for reducing lag. Not only does it provide better gas mileage but it increases low end torque. I made a quick crude kindergarten drawing showing you a typical T-VIS torque curve.
Image
The red x is the RPM you want to deactivate the T-VIS. The MSPNP has a T-VIS rpm setting. I love it when a plan comes together......

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Re: New AE86 restomod Daily Driver

Postby Jayrdee » Thu May 10, 2018 9:58 am

LOVE IT. Basically you're combating the lack of air pressure in the mountains by lowering your compression so you can shove more air in there via turbo? Also, good call on overbuilding your motor. I don't understand why people build their motors and push it 110%. They spend more money trying to fix everything than they do driving!

The TVIS in your case would be very beneficial too in maintaining that low end torque. The only people who remove it are the ones that plan on smacking their rev limiter 24/7 Lol.

Little off subject, I helped a buddy drive his cars to Las Vegas from Kentucky this past weekend. He joined the air force recently and is getting stationed there. Colorado is absolutely beautiful. I got to drive his lowered IS300 through the mountains so it was fun. I can only imagine what it will be like in a 300hp ae86.
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Re: New AE86 restomod Daily Driver

Postby jinx » Thu May 10, 2018 7:36 pm

turbo'd stock bluetops done 300hp. Stock GZE bottom ends seen 4,5,600hp
Don't see much point overbuilding. A leanout will damage forgies, and detonation can hammer any rod bearings
A CXracing turbo ain't 'overbuilding' :)

quite a few dyno'd turbo + TVIS advantages. A significant shift tq curve upwards, plus 7-800 rpm quicker spoolup
Oldschool member Neil was the 1st megasquirted 4AG I can remember. He raved how TVIS + small IHI(ford probe) turbo = "V8-like lower rpm acceleration" ...an unusual, but welcomed added dimension of fun, from a puny 1.6L street car

I've owned a bunch of rollas, and none came close to my daily driven(14 years) ca18det powered s13, in reliability

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Re: New AE86 restomod Daily Driver

Postby Hipcat » Thu May 10, 2018 8:06 pm

Jayrdee wrote:LOVE IT. Basically you're combating the lack of air pressure in the mountains by lowering your compression so you can shove more air in there via turbo? Also, good call on overbuilding your motor. I don't understand why people build their motors and push it 110%. They spend more money trying to fix everything than they do driving!

The TVIS in your case would be very beneficial too in maintaining that low end torque. The only people who remove it are the ones that plan on smacking their rev limiter 24/7 Lol.

Little off subject, I helped a buddy drive his cars to Las Vegas from Kentucky this past weekend. He joined the air force recently and is getting stationed there. Colorado is absolutely beautiful. I got to drive his lowered IS300 through the mountains so it was fun. I can only imagine what it will be like in a 300hp ae86.


That’s exactly right. When you up horse power on small displacement you either have to increase octane or lower the CR. You can go ethanol but that’s not practical for a car I intend my kids to drive.

I used to live in the mountains and we were drifting here in Colorado in the late nineties. I literally had no clue they were doing it in Japan. One of my friends had a Toyota starlet and he would race muscle heads down the mountain for $. Another friend, who would eventually become my brother in law did the same with an Rx4. My first drift car was a NA FC3S. I purchased it because of him.



jinx wrote:turbo'd stock bluetops done 300hp. Stock GZE bottom ends seen 4,5,600hp
Don't see much point overbuilding. A leanout will damage forgies, and detonation can hammer any rod bearings
A CXracing turbo ain't 'overbuilding' :)

quite a few dyno'd turbo + TVIS advantages. A significant shift tq curve upwards, plus 7-800 rpm quicker spoolup
Oldschool member Neil was the 1st megasquirted 4AG I can remember. He raved how TVIS + small IHI(ford probe) turbo = "V8-like lower rpm acceleration" ...an unusual, but welcomed added dimension of fun, from a puny 1.6L street car

I've owned a bunch of rollas, and none came close to my daily driven(14 years) ca18det powered s13, in reliability


:D I know a stock blue top can hit 300 but I would be willing to bet money it won’t go 200,000 miles like that. The same with the GZE. Reliable power is what I’m after, that’s priority number one. I agree that the CX kit isn’t “ overbuilding “, but in all honesty I only care about the engineering that went into the fitment. I’m going to make a post about how I intend to modify the kit for my application. Thanks for commenting on my build. Awesome to meet you!

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Re: New AE86 restomod Daily Driver

Postby jinx » Fri May 11, 2018 5:22 am

at the peak of the turbo craze, countless turbos added to much younger stock 4AGs
Dunno anybody that sets up a turbo car for 200,000 miles.... especially in todays changing world. That's overbuilding right there I suppose :)

managing heat is vital for longevity on a boosted car. To push 300hp worth of air thru an exhaust designed for a n.a. 120hp seems iffy
Definitely not 'overbuilding'

when u c daily driven DSMs today wringing 5-600hp from their stock 1990-91 2L motors, tuned via their 90-91 mitsu ecu....
it kinda changes ur perspective.
I'll bet money u reach ur goal tho, n we'll c one more cool rolla on the scene

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Re: New AE86 restomod Daily Driver

Postby Gino1X1 » Tue May 15, 2018 1:28 pm

This is really good. I can't honestly tell you about much reliability, but about twenty years ago when I was modding my USDM AE86's stock non rebuilt stock unopened "bluetop" I firstly used nawzz for about 5months (85hp needles). So that's about 180whp there.

Then I turboed the poor thing to 5 psi with an SDSEFI standalone which sometimes spiked to12psi due to "restrictive" 2.25" exhaust system. Okay later on I adapted a 70mm second hand MA60 Supra to my AE86, but anyway.... so that's somewhere around 200whp with those spikes.. Then I've -GZE'ised the stock (still unopened) bluetop with the system's stock -GZE electronics. Didn't dyno it because of the half moon clip failure at the crank snout at the very end of ownership. Which is about the only thing that marred my bluetop's 10 years of reliability record.

Mind you, this was with 87octane(if that) gasoline we get here in this part of the Caribbean.

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Re: New AE86 restomod Daily Driver

Postby Hipcat » Wed May 16, 2018 4:02 pm

Gino1X1 wrote:This is really good. I can't honestly tell you about much reliability, but about twenty years ago when I was modding my USDM AE86's stock non rebuilt stock unopened "bluetop" I firstly used nawzz for about 5months (85hp needles). So that's about 180whp there.

Then I turboed the poor thing to 5 psi with an SDSEFI standalone which sometimes spiked to12psi due to "restrictive" 2.25" exhaust system. Okay later on I adapted a 70mm second hand MA60 Supra to my AE86, but anyway.... so that's somewhere around 200whp with those spikes.. Then I've -GZE'ised the stock (still unopened) bluetop with the system's stock -GZE electronics. Didn't dyno it because of the half moon clip failure at the crank snout at the very end of ownership. Which is about the only thing that marred my bluetop's 10 years of reliability record.

Mind you, this was with 87octane(if that) gasoline we get here in this part of the Caribbean.



What a great success story!

I’m not super worried about a restrictive exhaust. I see many people worried (hks being too restrictive) but my evo puts out 350hp blowing through the stock exhaust 60mm in the choke points. If it does become an issue I won’t mind changing it whatsoever.

Howeve there are two factors why it should work just fine. One the exducer is going to be about 60mm same as the exhaust. Second the wastegate will be atmosphere dump, so boost creep shouldn’t be an issue. There is another much simpler factor involved and that is that the car will be rarely utilizing all the available HP. The majority of the time it will be babied. The peak HP rating isn’t a full time thing so large exhaust really isn’t necessary. I hope that makes sense.

Unfortunately many people purchase an exhaust system that is too large for daily driving applications. The “fartcannon” sound comes from that.

On another note I’m having real trouble deciding on injectors. To E85, flex or just rely on pump gas. The other issue is that there is a limited selection of injectors, none of which are ones that I’ve used previously.

I would very much welcome input on the fuel setup. Heck you can even vote, and I’ll go with it. :lol:


Oh and!

The wheels arrived!

Image

Image

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Re: New AE86 restomod Daily Driver

Postby jinx » Thu May 17, 2018 3:58 am

then what rims on car picture ?
I see many people worried (hks being too restrictive) but my evo puts out 350hp blowing through the stock exhaust 60mm in the choke points. If it does become an issue I won’t mind changing it whatsoever.

evo exhaust designed for a turbo car. Big difference. One builder deliberately sought & installed an evo muffler on his 4agte MR2
He explained why/how good? it was. Mitsu 'overbuilds'?
There is another much simpler factor involved and that is that the car will be rarely utilizing all the available HP.

Kinda what i was gettin at. With street car short bursts of power, countless turbo'd stock motors lived long
Use, and good tuning was the key..... n looks like u got that covered

most used DSM 450s, skyline, pulsar, 7m supra 440s, or rx7 550s. Evo probably better? pump gas. (+ water/meth if u get sucked in)

speakin of SDS, remember this? ....cool old school build here: http://www.sdsefi.com/features/feature9.html
of course megasquirt will far surpas it

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Re: New AE86 restomod Daily Driver

Postby Deuce Cam » Thu May 17, 2018 7:45 am

didnt read the whole thing, but hks sport is 50 mm at best. iirc it necks down to under 50mm id at cat flange

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Re: New AE86 restomod Daily Driver

Postby Hipcat » Thu May 17, 2018 11:17 am

Deuce Cam wrote:didnt read the whole thing, but hks sport is 50 mm at best. iirc it necks down to under 50mm id at cat flange

General specs:

AE86 Chassis, Over Diff Layout

Tip Style: E-1
Material: SUH409
Sound (Close): 92dB
Tip Size: 83mm
Piping: 60mm

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Re: New AE86 restomod Daily Driver

Postby Deuce Cam » Thu May 17, 2018 3:23 pm

Huh, are there 2 versions of the sport, or is it not a sport? I noticed the color of the paint is different (darker) than the one i bought new in 2011.

60 mm should be good for a turbo 4ag

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Re: New AE86 restomod Daily Driver

Postby Hipcat » Wed May 23, 2018 8:02 am

The coilovers and turbo kit arrived! I can start the mock up soon. Over the next few days, I’ll be welding the bumper support for the new body kit.

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Re: New AE86 restomod Daily Driver

Postby Jayrdee » Wed May 23, 2018 10:28 am

Deuce Cam wrote:Huh, are there 2 versions of the sport, or is it not a sport? I noticed the color of the paint is different (darker) than the one i bought new in 2011.

60 mm should be good for a turbo 4ag


Yeah they offer the sport with a twin tip too I think. They also started painting them black with a polished tip recently.

Hipcat wrote:The coilovers and turbo kit arrived! I can start the mock up soon. Over the next few days, I’ll be welding the bumper support for the new body kit.


I'm stoked to see what it looks like with the wheels on it!
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Re: New AE86 restomod Daily Driver

Postby Hipcat » Tue May 29, 2018 3:22 am

Wheels, coilovers, exhaust and front bushings installed. I’m at a stop due to parts being back ordered.

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