Engine noise, please help, video link

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SR85DET
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Engine noise, please help, video link

Postby SR85DET » Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:40 pm

https://youtu.be/l-H0TOih8C0

Well I'm wondering what this noise is. Rod knock? Spark knock (which is a term I never heard before tonight unless they mean Pre ignition)
Or.... piston slap. If it's valvetrain noise then I would be surprised. I just changed from 10w40 to 15w50 and also have only put about 150 miles on the swap total.

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jondee86
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Re: Engine noise, please help, video link

Postby jondee86 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:28 pm

Maybe this.... ??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekkXQR2AY-s

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Re: Engine noise, please help, video link

Postby Ratranger » Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:22 pm

Sounds like a rod thrashing its journal to me.
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Re: Engine noise, please help, video link

Postby mr2mk1hero » Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:50 am

Definitely doesn't sound like rod knock to me. That is a much deeper sound coming from down low. This seems to be coming from higher up, cylinder head area.

I think jondee86 is spot on and its the intake pulley.
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Re: Engine noise, please help, video link

Postby SR85DET » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:55 am

I forgot to mention that at idle I did plug in the VVT solenoid and there was no change in sound. My question is do I need to change the pulley before my track day this weekend? I have another pulley already on a second engine. I'm just not too excited about a late night of work before the event. BUT if the intake pulley is going to cause issues then I will do what I need to. This might explain why the engine runs like poo when the VVT solenoid is plugged in?

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SR85DET
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Re: Engine noise, please help, video link

Postby SR85DET » Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:45 am

Ratranger wrote:Sounds like a rod thrashing its journal to me.


From what I understand, the noise would be louder and increase with RPM. This noise goes away at 2000/2500 rpm.

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Re: Engine noise, please help, video link

Postby SgtRauksauff » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:50 am

isn't the vvt actuated by oil pressure? perhaps something's wrong with the pulley's metering mechanism, causing it to make the noise when it's below a certain psi, which can be related to rpm.

I can see that hurting performance for sure. I don't think it will fly apart and break something, but you'll definitely have less than optimal power/response from the motor.

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Re: Engine noise, please help, video link

Postby jondee86 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:58 pm

SR85DET wrote:I forgot to mention that at idle I did plug in the VVT solenoid and there was no change in sound.

As I understand it, on the silvertop the VVT system activates at some specified engine speed
(around 4000rpm IIRC). This means that it is not powered up at idle. So simple plugging in the
oil control valve at idle will not make any difference. In the video I posted, the guy applies 12V
to activate the valve at idle... this is why the "ticking" noise disappears and the engine bogs down.

The VVT pullet ticking is a well known annoyance with 20V engines, but I have never heard of one
flying apart just because it was ticking :)

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Re: Engine noise, please help, video link

Postby SR85DET » Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:36 pm

My other 20v VVT pulley didn't fix it

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Re: Engine noise, please help, video link

Postby SR85DET » Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:55 pm

Could it just be noisy valvetrain?? So, I did hook up my VVT solenoid plug after changing the intake pulley and it now engages. So my thoughts are noisy valvetrain or something to do with the SQ Engineering distributor relocation. The exhaust cam can be moved if grab the sides and rock it towards and away from the engine, NOT clockwise/counterclockwise. But it would need some space between the adapter plate or the cam wouldn't move. I'm so torn here as my track day is this weekend

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Re: Engine noise, please help, video link

Postby SR85DET » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:11 pm

http://youtu.be/e0WjRSAo5Vs

That link is exactly how my engine sounds and everyone is commenting on the pulley. I'm assuming I can have a working VVT pulley and still get the noise.
I did apply 12v and although the noise was not gone altogether, it did help. After all the engine is still old and probably has some valvetrain noise

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Re: Engine noise, please help, video link

Postby jondee86 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:51 pm

A valve ticking and a VVT pulley ticking will sound much the same. However, valves will
usually get less clearance (tighter) over time due to wear, whereas the VVT pulley will get
more clearance (looser) with wear. No-one can diagnose ticking 100% without eliminating
some of the possibilities... VVT pulley ticking just happens to be a very common cause.

The camshafts will have some rubbing surfaces to limit longitudinal movement, but as
the distributor is driven off the end of the cam in a 20V, there are no logitudinal forces
to be absorbed. So a small amount of movement is not an issue.

People have driven for many thousands of miles with a ticking pulley due to the cost of
buying a new one. And there is no guarantee that an used Ebay pulley will be any better
than the one you have now. Do your trackday and have fun... after all, the ticking goes
away at high rpm's... especially with open throttles :mrgreen:

Cheers... jondee86

PS: Before thrashing on your car it is always a good idea to check bolts and nuts are tight
(including lug nuts); connectors are pushed home, belts are correctly tensioned and hoses
are secure. You did use a torque wrench when you changed the VVt pulley... right ;)
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Re: Engine noise, please help, video link

Postby oldeskewltoy » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:52 am

SR85DET wrote:http://youtu.be/e0WjRSAo5Vs

That link is exactly how my engine sounds and everyone is commenting on the pulley. I'm assuming I can have a working VVT pulley and still get the noise.
I did apply 12v and although the noise was not gone altogether, it did help. After all the engine is still old and probably has some valvetrain noise



could also be injector ticking too........
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Re: Engine noise, please help, video link

Postby SR85DET » Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:31 am

I found out exactly what the noise was. The camshaft clocking pin was wearing into the cam gear on the intake side. The cam gear had play in because the distributor relocation kit part (that holds the rotor button), was tight against the cam inside but not the cam gear. Tightening the bolt more would not help as the part was bottomed out. Its hard to explain but I will try to post pictures shortly. I am going to contact the kit manufacturer before placing any fault directly there. The kit was installed as directed though.

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Re: Engine noise, please help, video link

Postby jondee86 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:23 pm

I interpret this to mean that there is a part that bolts to the end of the exhaust cam
that is used to drive the rotor. This part should bottom out on the face of the exhaust
cam gear so that the gear is clamped against the end of the cam as usual. In your case
the part bottoms out on the cam and does not clamp the gear. This leaves the knock
pin as the only thing that stops the gear from spinning freely on the cam :shock:

Certainly sounds like a manufacturing fault if you are using the OEM cam gear. The
knock pin is only there to make sure the gear is correctly indexed to the cam, not to
transmit any drive load. A correctly made replacement part should fix the problem,
but you will need to check that the cam gear is still a good fit on the cam. And if the
knock pin has been chewed up, you might need to replace that.

Cheers... jondee86
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Re: Engine noise, please help, video link

Postby SR85DET » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:10 am

jondee86 wrote:I interpret this to mean that there is a part that bolts to the end of the exhaust cam
that is used to drive the rotor. This part should bottom out on the face of the exhaust
cam gear so that the gear is clamped against the end of the cam as usual. In your case
the part bottoms out on the cam and does not clamp the gear. This leaves the knock
pin as the only thing that stops the gear from spinning freely on the cam :shock:

Certainly sounds like a manufacturing fault if you are using the OEM cam gear. The
knock pin is only there to make sure the gear is correctly indexed to the cam, not to
transmit any drive load. A correctly made replacement part should fix the problem,
but you will need to check that the cam gear is still a good fit on the cam. And if the
knock pin has been chewed up, you might need to replace that.

Cheers... jondee86


You interpreted correctly. I was on my first day, last session of a track day at Mid-Ohio. I spent 3 hours filing away at a piece of fencing to shim the cam back to stock position, shimmed the rounded surface of the cam to the cam gear (it did have wear on the cam sadly and I think the most unfortunate part) using a beer can cut into a small rectangle, and made new dowels for the rotor relocation piece. Once I filed away the stepped center section that hits the cam so that it hit the cam gear first, It was snug. I bolted everything down and re timed the car. Drove it all day Sunday (5 sessions), drove it back home about 2.5 hours and drove to work twice since! Definitely a MacGyver install. Haven't had any issues but I know that I need to strip it all back down to do it right. I'm just mad about the cam more than anything. We shall see what they say.

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Re: Engine noise, please help, video link

Postby Sprite » Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:46 pm

Glad to hear you were still able to do your track day. Let us know what you hear about the dist relocation kit. I've been looking at that kit for some time. It would sure make for more room in the engine bay.
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