4A-FE pistons question

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Rogue-AE95
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4A-FE pistons question

Postby Rogue-AE95 » Sat May 21, 2016 2:08 pm

So there are two kinds of 4A-FE pistons, the 1st gen for 1988-1992 6th gen Corollas, and the 2nd gen for the 1993-1997 7th gen Corollas. Does anyone know if the 2nd gen redesigned pistons (which look a little like the 8.9:1 GZE pistons) can be used in the older 1988-1992 4A-FE block? Do the two gens of 4A-FE share the same piston and cylinder head volume?

Image

Besides that, I believe the wrist pin size changed between gens (18mm press to 20mm press), and possibly the rod journal & crank (40 to 42). So the rods and maybe the crank would also need to be swapped. Going by info in this old post at the old club4ag (http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id ... 640#653640).

And of course the 7A-FE pistons must be a lower compression design, dished a little more than the 4A-FE pistons since it has more displacement.


2021 edit, I'm putting this in here for reference:
1988-1992 4A-FE rods: 40mm big end, 18mm press fit small end
1993-1997 4A-FE rods: 40mm big end, 20mm press fit small end
Last edited by Rogue-AE95 on Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
'88 Corolla All-Trac x2 (manual, auto)

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oldeskewltoy
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Re: 4A-FE pistons question

Postby oldeskewltoy » Mon May 23, 2016 8:52 am

Rogue-AE95 wrote:So there are two kinds of 4A-FE pistons, the 1st gen for 1988-1992 6th gen Corollas, and the 2nd gen for the 1993-1997 7th gen Corollas. Does anyone know if the 2nd gen redesigned pistons (which look a little like the 8.9:1 GZE pistons) can be used in the older 1988-1992 4A-FE block? Do the two gens of 4A-FE share the same piston and cylinder head volume?

Image

Besides that, I believe the wrist pin size changed between gens (18mm press to 20mm press), and possibly the rod journal & crank (40 to 42). So the rods and maybe the crank would also need to be swapped. Going by info in this old post at the old club4ag (http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id ... 640#653640).

And of course the 7A-FE pistons must be a lower compression design, dished a little more than the 4A-FE pistons since it has more displacement.


I just used the Z slugs... worked fine. Not sure if there is a chamber difference between generations
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

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Re: 4A-FE pistons question

Postby Rogue-AE95 » Mon May 23, 2016 6:56 pm

I was thinking about a rebuild of my 1988 4A-FE, as I will soon have it out for a clutch job & trans swap. (Being that removing the 4A-FE is such a PITA in an All-Trac.) I thought about using the updated (AE101) pistons instead. But I was wondering if the volume would be different since the head was redesigned for the AE101.

I thought the 8.9:1 pistons bumped up the compression a little under the FE head? Did you use something other than the stock engine management on Grunt? I suppose a little increase wouldn't hurt the stock fuel maps.
'88 Corolla All-Trac x2 (manual, auto)

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Re: 4A-FE pistons question

Postby oldeskewltoy » Tue May 24, 2016 7:32 am

Rogue-AE95 wrote:I was thinking about a rebuild of my 1988 4A-FE, as I will soon have it out for a clutch job & trans swap. (Being that removing the 4A-FE is such a PITA in an All-Trac.) I thought about using the updated (AE101) pistons instead. But I was wondering if the volume would be different since the head was redesigned for the AE101.

I thought the 8.9:1 pistons bumped up the compression a little under the FE head? Did you use something other than the stock engine management on Grunt? I suppose a little increase wouldn't hurt the stock fuel maps.


about 1/2 point... just remembered I'm running 20V block/crank/rods... so I can run the SC slugs... not sure what the 4AF crank/rods can accept....
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

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Re: 4A-FE pistons question

Postby Rogue-AE95 » Sat Nov 19, 2016 6:05 am

So I've been thinking about this a little more, since there's a possibility of me buying a 4th car which would have a 1st gen 4A-FE. I have a lot of extra parts accumulated over the past several years since I bought my first Toyota (my CAT wagon). One of my acquisitions is an MR2's disassembled 4A-GZE minus the supercharger bits.

So I have the 8.0 GZE pistons, though in standard bore size. I'm wondering, if they were usable under a 1st gen 4A-FE head and its re-honed (not over-bored) block, what kind of compression would I see? I checked out a compression calculator and got these numbers. Correct me if I'm wrong.

My reason for this would be to make an FE that's closer to stock comp (in the 9's) with the plan of turboing it. ARP hardware, ported head, rebuilt bottom end (but using the stock FE rods & crank). I know it sounds trivial to bother rebuilding and turboing a 4A-FE over a 4A-GE, but I have several reasons. One, to make a "crappy" engine more bulletproof, two, to keep all stock accessories (as the FWD GT-S is not exactly common in my area), three, because I'd end up with two 1st-gen 4A-FEs sitting in my garage and I don't want that ;)

06.mm head gasket (I can't remember why I used this number -- OEM 7A-FE head gasket?)

Image

0.8mm head gasket (TRD 4A-GE -- would this work?)

Image

1.2mm head gasket (standard thickness)

Image

I wasn't sure about the HG cylinder bore size, so I entered 82mm. It made little difference in compression when changing it, though.
'88 Corolla All-Trac x2 (manual, auto)

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Re: 4A-FE pistons question

Postby Gino1X1 » Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:15 pm

Zombie'ising this thread. Last millennia my good friend and his daughter have build up an EL40 Tercel with this combo: a 4AF (yes, the early carbe'd one) block with 4AGE "bluetop"'s conn rods w/small ends rebored for the 1st gen 4AGZE pistons. It was fairly zippy combo with mildly ported head and single 38/38 Weber and C52 gearbox. So yes the 4AF was Frankensteined using the Low compression 4AGZE piston.

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Re: 4A-FE pistons question

Postby Rogue-AE95 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:02 pm

Thanks for posting! I haven't given much thought to this idea since I posted this topic, but I'm glad to hear it's do-able.
'88 Corolla All-Trac x2 (manual, auto)

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Re: 4A-FE pistons question

Postby Rogue-AE95 » Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:23 am

Bumping this up. I edited my first post since I measured an old set of 2nd gen 4A-FE rods that I have (can't use, no good).

But I'd still like to know... what is the wrist pin size of the 1st gen (88-92) 4A-F(E) piston / rod?

I don't want to have to pull & tear apart one of my two running 4A-FEs to find out ;) Above I referenced a post at the old forum, but the link no longer works.
'88 Corolla All-Trac x2 (manual, auto)

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Re: 4A-FE pistons question

Postby davew7 » Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:52 am

Can you explain, " I measured an old set of 2nd gen 4A-FE rods that I have (can't use, no good). Why? Are they not a standard 40mm crank and 20mm pin, or are they a different size?
davew7

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Re: 4A-FE pistons question

Postby Rogue-AE95 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 3:56 am

The 4A-FE rods are bent. Probably someone hydrolocked the engine. I use the block as a mock-up, since my wagon never originally came with a 4A-GE of any kind, and this 2nd gen 4A-FE block has a notch along the oil pan like my original 4A-FE.

I guess I should clarify, I measured the bearings in the big end and they are 40mm. The actual rod big end is slightly larger of course to accommodate the bearings.
'88 Corolla All-Trac x2 (manual, auto)

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Re: 4A-FE pistons question

Postby davew7 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:02 am

Thanks for the reply. I was thinking you may have found a different rod length or bearing size. Davew7

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Re: 4A-FE pistons question

Postby Rogue-AE95 » Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:05 pm

This has been confirmed to me twice now, the 1st gen 4AFE wrist pins are 18mm.
'88 Corolla All-Trac x2 (manual, auto)