Looking for 200 hp in my AE95

[rontrek]

Hey, all. I have an AE95 wagon and I'm planning for a build next summer (this summer is drivetrain and suspension). I don't want anything too crazy, but 90hp isn't cutting it. I'd like for the solution to be N/A or supercharged. I'm buying an ST185 as well, so I'm going to save my turbo fun for that one.

I know there are some issues fitting a blacktop due to clearance issues on the AWD transaxle, but apparently the silvertop 'goes right in.' I'm just not crazy about the idea of only 160hp. Even though it's a light body and 160 is a lot more than an old, 235k 90hp 4A-FE, I want it to be slightly more comical than that and I think 200 at the crank is the right number.

I do not want to spend thousands of dollars upgrading the internals (that's for the Celica). What are my options?

[sirdeuce]

Budget, budget, budget.....

[yoshimitsuspeed]

Why would you be adverse to having two turbo vehicles? It would be the most practical route.
A supercharger could get you there but you will spend a lot more and get a lot less. Then if you ever decide you want much more than that you wold need to completely redo everything and convert to turbo anyway.

You could do it NA but again you will spend more, get less and if you want more down the road you would either need to spend a ton more money for a little more NA power or go turbo at that point.

[sirdeuce]

Yoshi has a good point! Easiest way to get your 200hp is to buy a formula engine and detune it for the street. It is a blast though to have an engine that revs to 9500-10000 RPM! As for supercharging to that level? You start getting close to the limit of the SC12 so you'd look into either an SC14 or M90 Eaton and a bit of fabrication to plant the blower to the block. If you want to get closer to that goal without the astronomical revs a 7AG might be something to look into.

Still, either way you look at it, all depends on $$$$.

[Justacorolla]

I do not want to spend thousands of dollars upgrading the internals (that's for the Celica). What are my options?

You will spend thousands of dollars getting to 200 hp, with turbo/supercharger or N/A. Turbo 4AFE sounds like the most economical route IMO but at that mileage who knows how long it would last. For power on a budget in an all trac corolla here's what I would do. Rebuild the 4AFE, head studs, new clutch, turbo manifold, some form of engine management, ect it gets expensive really quick. The easy answer is, you will not achieve your goals on such a low budget.

[sirdeuce]

If you don't mind having the bottle, NO2 is the cheapest way to 200+ hp. Couple-a stages and the progressive stuff! Yehaw! BOOM!

[yoshimitsuspeed]

I do not want to spend thousands of dollars upgrading the internals (that's for the Celica). What are my options?

You will spend thousands of dollars getting to 200 hp, with turbo/supercharger or N/A.

You could get to 200 CHP on stock 20v internals pretty easy if you tune smart. I expect I am pushing closer to 200 WHP and going for more this summer.

[Justacorolla]

I do not want to spend thousands of dollars upgrading the internals (that's for the Celica). What are my options?

I expect I am pushing closer to 200 WHP and going for more this summer.

That sounds like it cost thousands of dollars....

[yoshimitsuspeed]

I do not want to spend thousands of dollars upgrading the internals (that's for the Celica). What are my options?

I expect I am pushing closer to 200 WHP and going for more this summer.

That sounds like it cost thousands of dollars....

What does?
He said he didn't want to spend thousands of dollars on internals and I am running stock internals.
Yeah I swapped to 20v and that had it's own costs involved but I am still running stock internals in my 20v.

[rontrek]

Ok, great replies, thanks. My budget for this will probably only be in the $2k-$3k range unless I get a nice raise before next summer. At this point, I'm realizing maybe I should just drop in the 4A-GE silvertop for now and then upgrade it later if I really want that 200hp. I'm sure it'll be a blast compared to what it is now and like I said, I'm going to have the Celica to really go crazy with.

[Justacorolla]

What does?
He said he didn't want to spend thousands of dollars on internals and I am running stock internals.
Yeah I swapped to 20v and that had it's own costs involved but I am still running stock internals in my 20v.

So your saying your making close to 200whp on stock cams, valves, and chambers? Impressive. The OP on the other hand is working with a 4AFE and would have to include 20v swap costs to his build. I'm not saying it's impossible to make decent power just that it is unrealistic with a shoe string budget.

Ok, great replies, thanks. My budget for this will probably only be in the $2k-$3k range unless I get a nice raise before next summer. At this point, I'm realizing maybe I should just drop in the 4A-GE silvertop for now and then upgrade it later if I really want that 200hp. I'm sure it'll be a blast compared to what it is now and like I said, I'm going to have the Celica to really go crazy with.

That's a more realistic budget to see some gains.

[sirdeuce]

Silver top swap will run close to $2000 If you get a decent deal on a good engine with all the sensors, ECU etc.. Could get a black top in for not too much more. Then upgrade to a set of cams the stock ECU can handle. Could be within a 3K budget. Play with the tune a bit and might be able to get close to 180hp.
Yoshi is right on the internals. Pretty much all of the 4AG engines have internals that are capable of handling 200 HP, very well engineered. The later 42mm journal rod/crank can probably last a bit longer with the extra bearing surface. The rods in the 20v engines are at least tough enough to handle 9000rpm, the redline is 8100rpm and I think the rev limits at 8500rpm. I know the rods in the earlier engines can handle 9000rpm, even the 40mm journal rods. BUT! For a budget of $3000 you could get your bottom built and still have enough to have the 16v head worked over well enough to get you closer to your goal. Supertech valves, springs and bits can be had for around $750. Head work, porting and machining for the oversize valves can be had for @ $1200-1300. Use the stock cams. You'd be surprised where that would get you.

[yoshimitsuspeed]

So your saying your making close to 200whp on stock cams, valves, and chambers? Impressive.

Yes I am running 7 PSI boost on an unopened Blacktop. At that 200 WHP might be a bit of a stretch but it should be pretty close. I am sure by the time I find the limits of this motor I will be well enough over that.

The OP on the other hand is working with a 4AFE and would have to include 20v swap costs to his build. I'm not saying it's impossible to make decent power just that it is unrealistic with a shoe string budget.

At that point there was no stated budget. The OP just said they didn't want to spend thousands on internals. I assumed that meant on top of the cost of the swap initially discussed here.

[rontrek]

Silver top swap will run close to $2000 If you get a decent deal on a good engine with all the sensors, ECU etc.. Could get a black top in for not too much more.

Actually, the only reason I'm not looking at a blacktop is because of the clearance issues on the AWD transmission. I know it's been done, but I have to research it more to see how much work is involved in making it fit. The only thing I read so far is that you have to grind away some metal from either the transmission or the engine (can't remember) and that there would be "risk of leaks" due to that. Again, I need to read up on it to find out what exactly the situation is. If anyone can shed any light in the meantime, that'd be appreciated.

[Justacorolla]

Here's a well documented AE95 blacktop swap.

http://www.hachiroku.net/forums/showthread.php?t=23119

[rontrek]

Cool. By the way, what are the differences between the blocks between the 4AFE and the 4AGE? Is it possible to just swap internals and then use the GE head? Or the GZE head and supercharger? Is this a stupid question? The latest model GZE apparently had 165hp and it seems like a S/C would be fun for around town pick-up and go. I know some people are not too keen on supercharging due to turbos giving more power, but seriously, this doesn't need to be a ridiculous machine. I'm not racing it; I just want to have a laugh while I get around town.

[Rogue-AE95]

ALL 1985(?) to 1992 4A blocks have a rectangle oil pan shape. EXCEPT the Corolla All-Tracs' 4A-FE ('88-'92), which have a cut-out to clear the 5-speed's transfer case. I have no idea what the automatic gearbox is like for the All-Trac. The rest of my comments here pertain to the 5-speed gearbox.

ALL 1993-1997 4A blocks have that same All-Trac-unique OIL PAN cut-out that will clear the transfer case. This includes the 20v blocks, unless someone can prove this wrong. I've seen plenty of pics of the 20v blocks with the cut-out. But there is a bit of a ridge of material that prevents a direct swap onto the All-Trac's gearbox. Justacorolla posted a great link showing what needs to be ground off a 20v block OR a '93-'97 4A-FE block.

16v 4A-GE blocks ALL have the rectangular oil pan design. Physically it will not fit the Corolla All-Trac unless you grind away at the block, oil pan, and part of the transfer case (the latter as a compromise) to make it fit. This removes material from the area where the oil pan seals on the block, and you run a very high risk of oil leaks.

I can't comment on the 7A blocks. I only know that they also have a cut-out on the oil pan that should clear the transfer case, as those engines were also used in the 2nd gen Sprinter Caribs overseas. But I don't know if a ridge of material needs to be ground away like it does on the 20v and AE101 ('93-'97) 4A-FE blocks.


^ This is a 16v 4A-GZE block that was ground down by a great AE95 enthusiast named Kevin, to fit his All-Trac/4WD. You can see how close the oil pan bolts are to the part that was ground away. And below...

[sirdeuce]

Yep, the 7A block has the same notch.