Wideband 02 Question

[Jeonsah]

I have an innovate LC-1 wideband that I am going to be installing on my car. They told me to put it after the collector. I am currently running a stock 4age header and plan to keep running it. I am just curious to know if its possible to run the wideband in the place of the stock o2 sensor and then wire then wideband sensor into the ecu? So then I will only have to run 1 oxygen sensor instead of two.

Thanks

[nevomr2]

Most, if not all modern wideband controllers have a narrowband output. This output is for exactly the reason you are asking about - an o2 input for the stock ecu.

[jondee86]

I am just curious to know if its possible to run the wideband in the place of the
stock o2 sensor and then wire then wideband sensor into the ecu?

I have been running the LC-1 sensor in the stock location for some time, and
it works. But there is a bit of downside. Because the exhaust gases have not
had enough time to mix and reach an average O2 value, the reading jumps around
more than it should. One of the reasons the makers recommend installing the
sensor after the final merge.

The other thing is that the sensor can overheat. I only found this to happen
if I ran WOT to redline in third and then ran hard again in fourth gear. By the
time I hit 7000rpm the gauge output was dead. Fortunately it came back to life
when I stopped a bit later and turned the ignition off and back on. But I try and
avoid running WOT for too long in high gears now.

And as said above, there is a "simulated narrow band" output available from
the LC-1 for replacing your factory narrow band sensor output to the ECU.

Cheers... jondee86.

[totta crolla]

I can't speak for the LC-1 because I am using an Innovate LM-2 and whilst the unit works ok I have never been able to get the simulated narrow band output to work correctly.
Considering what Jondee says above and my experience (and others, do a search) it may be best to use two separate sensors.

[burdickjp]

I've done quite a few LC1 installs and engine management tunes. I currently have an LC1 in the stock location and have had none of the mentioned troubles at all. I've done brake-loaded WOT throttle pulls for engine management tuning and had no trouble with the lambda readings from the LC1. I've had no troubles programming the outputs.
I have, however, had other troubles with LC1s. I'm not sure if there's another wideband that can do narrowband emulation, though.

[yoshimitsuspeed]

Most widebands can do NB emulation. Autometer is the one that I know of for sure that can't They say that they don't believe it can as well as a NB sensor especially on newer vehicles. My LC1 works better than my stock O2 sensor did though. It did take a lot of fiddling with the software on the laptop to get it to recognize the signal properly. It still doesn't recognize the cold start signal so when I start it I need to blip the throttle once to get it to start listening to the signal. There are a lot of settings to play with in the software to adjust that signal so it may not be hard but it never bothered me enough to keep messing with it.

I would not put the sensor closer than about 24" from the head. If you do then at least use a heat sink.
Have you read the instructions? Too much heat will damage the sensor and seriously shorten it's lifespan.

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/supp ... Manual.pdf

There is a reason they recommend placing it further downstream.

I have a wiring diagram somewhere that shows how to eliminate your stock sensor while keeping the ECU happy. Not sure where it is though.

[yoshimitsuspeed]

Here we go. downside of linking to pics on FB is they disappear after a while. Here is my writeup.
http://www.mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=4 ... hlight=lc1

And here are the missing images. One of these days I should put it up on my website.

[jondee86]

I've done brake-loaded WOT throttle pulls for engine management tuning and
had no trouble with the lambda readings from the LC1.

Interesting... maybe there is something else going on that is causing the
jitter on my readings. I'm going to get a bung welded on after the final
merge. and will be looking to see if the readings settle down when I have
relocated the sensor.

Cheers... jondee86

[jdm86gtz]

I have a Innovate G3, I think it's the LC2.
Does the sensor have a preference to the mounting angle?
It is going into the downpipe on a 4AGTE and at a guess somewhere close to the bellhousing to be 24" from the turbo but is 90 degrees to the pipe or is say 75 degrees better etc.?

[s24a]

All O2 sensors, whether narrow or wideband, want to have as vertical a mounting as possible so that water cannot collect and freeze in the sensor head.
Mounting this way makes them self-draining.

[jdm86gtz]

I might mount it further down stream where the pipe starts to go horizontal if I have the space.

[jondee86]

...but is 90 degrees to the pipe or is say 75 degrees better etc.?

Cold start can cause condensation inside the exhaust, and you don't
want this hitting the sensor. I'd shoot for at least horizontal or a little
above, depending on how much space you have to work with.

Cheers... jondee86

[yoshimitsuspeed]

RTFM
Mounting tips are in the instructions.

[Jeonsah]

Thanks for the help guys. So from this discussion I basically know two things:

1. Can use the wideband to emulate the stock narrowband
2. Place the sensor further down after the final join
3. May have trouble getting the wideband to emulate the narrowband


Lastly, is the HT wire circuit for the O2 sensor just to heat the stock sensor when its cold correct?

Vic

[burdickjp]

2. Place the sensor further down after the final join

As I said, I haven't seen issues with the OEM location. That's also with using the 16v manifold on a 20v.
If you read the LC1 manual, it discusses the EGTs which will damage the sensor.

Lastly, is the HT wire circuit for the O2 sensor just to heat the stock sensor when its cold correct?

It's for startup conditions, when the exhaust would be at ambient temperature. Otherwise the sensor would have to be heated by the exhaust, which can take several minutes.

[jdm86gtz]

RTFM
Mounting tips are in the instructions.

Yes manual says between 9 and 3 o'clock, I was wondering would I be better mounting it between maybe 10 and 2 o'clock.
But I should have no problem fitting it at the 3 o'clock position

[yoshimitsuspeed]

RTFM
Mounting tips are in the instructions.

Yes manual says between 9 and 3 o'clock, I was wondering would I be better mounting it between maybe 10 and 2 o'clock.
But I should have no problem fitting it at the 3 o'clock position

It really doesn't matter as long as it's above horizontal.