how to do 20valve fcr carb??

SantanaAE86
Club4AG Regular
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 8:38 am

how to do 20valve fcr carb??

Postby SantanaAE86 » Sun Jan 25, 2015 10:39 am

Hey peepsz im building my ae86 for drifting and my plan is to do a silvertop 20v with flatside fcr carbs. I did some research and most people say you have to lock the dizzy and use the one of 3K , can anyone explain me why you have to use the 3K distributor and give me some advise with the building
And tell what all I have to do if I want yhe fcr's on the 20v
thxn

Disable adblock

This site is supported by ads and donations.
If you see this text you are blocking our ads.
Please consider a Donation to support the site.


User avatar
jondee86
Moderator
Posts: 2654
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:21 pm
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

Re: how to do 20valve fcr carb??

Postby jondee86 » Sun Jan 25, 2015 3:15 pm

http://club4ag.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=193

Graba cup of coffee and get a comfortable chair... you got some
reading to do :D

EDIT: The 3K modified distributor detail only applies to 16V's...
you can't use it with a 20V.

Cheers... jondee86
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.

yoshimitsuspeed
Club4AG MASTER
Posts: 2084
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:18 pm
Contact:

Re: how to do 20valve fcr carb??

Postby yoshimitsuspeed » Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:07 am

Why would you do this? Would you replace your computer with a typewriter? Your calculator app for an abacus?

If you lock your dizzy you will loose even more power, get worse gas mileage, pollute more.
If you are going to go with carbs at least get proper ignition control but at that point there is really no reason not to go with full EFI.

SantanaAE86
Club4AG Regular
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 8:38 am

Re: how to do 20valve fcr carb??

Postby SantanaAE86 » Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:54 pm

Yeah if I go carbs I have allready a msd 6al box just I will have to find the ingition control box I think the p/n is 8980

I know it is better if I just find an ecu like a microtech lt10ect but the carbs just sound so good
I have a twin 45 dcoe weber but I think the fcr's would be better for the silvertop

Disable adblock

This site is supported by ads and donations.
If you see this text you are blocking our ads.
Please consider a Donation to support the site.


SantanaAE86
Club4AG Regular
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 8:38 am

Re: how to do 20valve fcr carb??

Postby SantanaAE86 » Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:55 pm

jondee86 wrote:http://club4ag.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=193

Graba cup of coffee and get a comfortable chair... you got some
reading to do :D

EDIT: The 3K modified distributor detail only applies to 16V's...
you can't use it with a 20V.

Cheers... jondee86


Thxn bro it help allot!

SantanaAE86
Club4AG Regular
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 8:38 am

Re: how to do 20valve fcr carb??

Postby SantanaAE86 » Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:24 pm

So basicaly what im going to do is remove the efi system and put the msd 6al that I allready have and buy a msd 8980/8981 ingition timing computer , with all that I can use the stock dizzy from the 20v?

And obvious look for the fcr carburator but can someone help me with that? What size would be perfect for the silvertop 39 or 41 ? And what jet size? Pls correct me if im wrong in something

ogdougynutty
Club4AG Enthusiast
Posts: 134
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:07 am

Re: how to do 20valve fcr carb??

Postby ogdougynutty » Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:04 pm

If you have these kind of questions (because you should have the answer to most of them already) just stick with ITBs and FI. The money you would spend on FCRs alone (new= little more than 1k, used= maybe $800 if you're lucky) could buy a nice tune-able ECU and you would have a much more enjoyable car.

User avatar
saiGone
Club4AG Expert
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:42 pm

Re: how to do 20valve fcr carb??

Postby saiGone » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:23 am

SantanaAE86 wrote:So basicaly what im going to do is remove the efi system and put the msd 6al that I allready have and buy a msd 8980/8981 ingition timing computer , with all that I can use the stock dizzy from the 20v?


And obvious look for the fcr carburator but can someone help me with that? What size would be perfect for the silvertop 39 or 41 ? And what jet size? Pls correct me if im wrong in something


Hey, the 8980/81 is discontinued, you might get lucky to find one used, but the only online shops that still carry them are $200-$300

Jetting will have to be tuned to your location/ environment, no 100% formula to go by


At the end of the day, you will still have the waterline/distributor issues to deal w. swapping in a 20v, regardless if EFI or carb
Club 4AG member since 05 (Formally SaigonsSon)

Image

SantanaAE86
Club4AG Regular
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 8:38 am

Re: how to do 20valve fcr carb??

Postby SantanaAE86 » Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:10 pm

Yeah that's true . I dont have the engine yet so I still got time to decide going carb or a standalone
I realy want to go carb but I dont have that much experience with jetting and **** so if things get difficuld with carb im staying efi and hook up a stand alone
really need more info like how I lock the 20v dizzy and that kind of stufs with the ignition

User avatar
jondee86
Moderator
Posts: 2654
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:21 pm
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

Re: how to do 20valve fcr carb??

Postby jondee86 » Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:02 pm

http://www.7tune.com/mini-feature-powersports-powergate-ae86-levin/

Doesn't say anything about ignition tho... I'd guess that you could
make a CAS from the base of the OEM dissy with a blank off plate.
Then run wasted spark with coilpacks with the help of an ignition
computer. I haven't researched it, but there are bound to be some
around that can trigger a 2-channel igniter... maybe even trigger
COP's ?

This should work...
http://microtechefi.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=52

Cheers... jondee86
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.

yoshimitsuspeed
Club4AG MASTER
Posts: 2084
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:18 pm
Contact:

Re: how to do 20valve fcr carb??

Postby yoshimitsuspeed » Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:44 pm

SantanaAE86 wrote:Yeah that's true . I dont have the engine yet so I still got time to decide going carb or a standalone
I realy want to go carb but I dont have that much experience with jetting and **** so if things get difficuld with carb im staying efi and hook up a stand alone
really need more info like how I lock the 20v dizzy and that kind of stufs with the ignition


So you want to spend more time and more money for worse emissions, worse performance and worse fuel economy.

I will never get it.

SantanaAE86
Club4AG Regular
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 8:38 am

Re: how to do 20valve fcr carb??

Postby SantanaAE86 » Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:30 pm

yoshimitsuspeed wrote:
SantanaAE86 wrote:Yeah that's true . I dont have the engine yet so I still got time to decide going carb or a standalone
I realy want to go carb but I dont have that much experience with jetting and **** so if things get difficuld with carb im staying efi and hook up a stand alone
really need more info like how I lock the 20v dizzy and that kind of stufs with the ignition


So you want to spend more time and more money for worse emissions, worse performance and worse fuel economy.

I will never get it.


Not 100% sure man I was just wondering how to do that kind of build cause I saw a fey one's of the ae86 n2 machines of japan
My second option was a 4agze cause you can find more race parts and everything than a 20v . Its a drift build

yoshimitsuspeed
Club4AG MASTER
Posts: 2084
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:18 pm
Contact:

Re: how to do 20valve fcr carb??

Postby yoshimitsuspeed » Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:19 pm

SantanaAE86 wrote:
yoshimitsuspeed wrote:
SantanaAE86 wrote:Yeah that's true . I dont have the engine yet so I still got time to decide going carb or a standalone
I realy want to go carb but I dont have that much experience with jetting and **** so if things get difficuld with carb im staying efi and hook up a stand alone
really need more info like how I lock the 20v dizzy and that kind of stufs with the ignition


So you want to spend more time and more money for worse emissions, worse performance and worse fuel economy.

I will never get it.


Not 100% sure man I was just wondering how to do that kind of build cause I saw a fey one's of the ae86 n2 machines of japan
My second option was a 4agze cause you can find more race parts and everything than a 20v . Its a drift build


Yep at one point F1, Nascar, Formula Atlantic and airplanes used to run carbs too.

What exactly are your goals. If you are still trying to decide between a GZE and a 20v it doesn't sound like you have narrowed down your goals or your needs very much yet.
Personally I would go turbo over GZE. You will spend all that time and money getting the GZE swapped in, then if you wanted more than 130 WHP you would spend a lot more money getting it into the 160 WHP range. If you decide you want more than that you basically need to start over. Yank the whole supercharger setup and the ECU and you have a basic 4AGE with better pistons.

There are a ton of options.
You could build a 16v pretty affordably that would take out stock 20 valves.
You could build a 7AGE that had a little more power and a broader power curve.
You could build a turbo 4AGE or 7AGE that would devastate any GZE still hooked up to a supercharger.
The 20v is awesome and you could also do a 7A bottom end on that as well.
I have to say though that I wouldn't swap one into a longitudinal layout unless I planned on ditching the dizzy and going full aftermarket engine management.
You might have noticed I am not a big fan of the GZE swap. It's a lot of effort for an outdated inefficient supercharger, a mess of intake piping, a weak ECU and pistons that are by todays standards depressingly low compression unless you are going for crazy power numbers.

As you noticed I am also not a fan of carbs. I don't understand the fascination so many still have with them. There is a reason that Formula Atlantic, F1, Nascar, aerospace and everyone else has stopped using them. Because some time between the 1950s and the 90ss they figured out how to make EFI do everything better.

SantanaAE86
Club4AG Regular
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 8:38 am

Re: how to do 20valve fcr carb??

Postby SantanaAE86 » Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:06 am

Yes I notice you aren't a carb fan . Most carb fans like me we like it for the sounds it make's when it is idling and revving at high rpm's and obviously the amazing way it performs . They 'r still a few 4age carb enthusiast around the whole world
A stand alone ecu is good cause just with a press of a button you can add more fuel and adjust your timing like you whant but that doesn't mean carb cant make big hp . I like the 4agze but the one that came from the ae101 with higher cr ect

Its gonna be a budged build so you know

yoshimitsuspeed
Club4AG MASTER
Posts: 2084
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:18 pm
Contact:

Re: how to do 20valve fcr carb??

Postby yoshimitsuspeed » Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:12 am

SantanaAE86 wrote:Yes I notice you aren't a carb fan . Most carb fans like me we like it for the sounds it make's when it is idling and revving at high rpm's and obviously the amazing way it performs . They 'r still a few 4age carb enthusiast around the whole world
A stand alone ecu is good cause just with a press of a button you can add more fuel and adjust your timing like you whant but that doesn't mean carb cant make big hp . I like the 4agze but the one that came from the ae101 with higher cr ect

Its gonna be a budged build so you know


That's the thing though, even if sound is your highest priority it wouldn't sound any better than ITBs.
As for performance you could tune a carb to perform almost as well as EFI but as soon as the weather changes that tune will no longer be ideal. Drive up 1000 feet and the tune will be far from ideal.
What is great about properly done EFI is not that you can change the tune at the press of a button but the fact that it is able to make thousands of adjustments a minute. If the barometric pressure and intake temps change it can adapt to that instantly. If you drive up 12k feet in elevation it will adapt to that as you drive and run as optimally at 12k feet as it did at sea level. Just small changes in elevation have a significant impact on the performance of a carb. Do a big climb like that and it will fall on it's face. You would either be dangerously rich up high or dangerously lean down low. Or you could stop to re jet a few times along the way.
That is not my idea of amazing performance. Sure they can make big power in that exact environment they were tuned but even then many of the old die hard carb fans are finding they are able to make more power with EFI.
In this day and age there is no benefit to running carbs other than to say you are and on a motor that didn't originally come with carbs I just don't understand the draw to that.

You also say it's going to be a budget build but then you are looking at taking a car that's already fuel injected and spending more time and money to convert it to more antiquated less capable hardware.

AxisZ
Club4AG Regular
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:08 pm
Location: Buffalo, NY

Re: how to do 20valve fcr carb??

Postby AxisZ » Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:21 am

I wouldn't waste time with FCR unless you have previous experience with them. There is a little bit more to setting them up then your typical weber style sidedrafts plus you need a manifold. I personally only know of the ssworks one, would have to check in with them to see if they're still available. Plus a set of FCR's are pretty expensive to begin with. Honestly if you've never messed with carbs before FCR's probably aren't a good beginner carb setup, there's a lot more information on webers/oer/mikuni and they're a lot cheaper. If its just about the sound aspect, ITBs sound pretty much the same and for the price of a set of FCRs you could probably scoop up a blacktop.

User avatar
jondee86
Moderator
Posts: 2654
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:21 pm
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

Re: how to do 20valve fcr carb??

Postby jondee86 » Fri Jan 30, 2015 2:15 pm

Bit of video here...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vURwArclj_U

Bit of info here...
http://club4ag.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=12619&p=84748&hilit=fcr#p84748

To paraphrase JFK...
"We choose to go FCR carbs on this engine, not because they are easy,
but because they are hard
."

It would be a very boring world if everyone had to do s**t because it made
sense. It is the things that don't make sense that reach out and grab you...

Image

You can't walk past this car without feeling something... doesn't matter if
it is admiration, bewilderment or amusement. this is a creation of the
imagination, not cold hard reason. This is art... and this is what separates
men from machines and computers. Never be afraid to do something
different... it doesn't have to make sense ;)

Cheers... jondee86
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.

yoshimitsuspeed
Club4AG MASTER
Posts: 2084
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:18 pm
Contact:

Re: how to do 20valve fcr carb??

Postby yoshimitsuspeed » Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:58 pm

jondee86 wrote:Bit of video here...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vURwArclj_U

Bit of info here...
http://club4ag.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=12619&p=84748&hilit=fcr#p84748

To paraphrase JFK...
"We choose to go FCR carbs on this engine, not because they are easy,
but because they are hard
."

It would be a very boring world if everyone had to do s**t because it made
sense. It is the things that don't make sense that reach out and grab you...

Image

You can't walk past this car without feeling something... doesn't matter if
it is admiration, bewilderment or amusement. this is a creation of the
imagination, not cold hard reason. This is art... and this is what separates
men from machines and computers. Never be afraid to do something
different... it doesn't have to make sense ;)

Cheers... jondee86

I am all about things creative and unique but we are talking about carbs not art. Carbs have been done on everything. It is not creative, it is not unique and it's not really hard. This is what I don't understand.
Why not do something progressive? Why not do something that no one or very few have done before? Why not do something that is leading edge and makes your car better, faster, lighter, more fuel efficient, more powerful, more economical?

SantanaAE86
Club4AG Regular
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 8:38 am

Re: how to do 20valve fcr carb??

Postby SantanaAE86 » Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:06 am

Yeah I think is time to listen of people who have more experience than me and know why they are telling me staying efi . I dont have any expirience with fcr and It would be a pain in the ass if I choose them .

ogdougynutty
Club4AG Enthusiast
Posts: 134
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:07 am

Re: how to do 20valve fcr carb??

Postby ogdougynutty » Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:53 pm

Yeah that will be better. Trying to start off with the FCR's will be difficult because you will have no one to help you because the jet sizes dont match up. Now on the other hand, if you got mikuni (PHH) side drafts and the corresponding manifold i would say go for it.

SantanaAE86
Club4AG Regular
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 8:38 am

Re: how to do 20valve fcr carb??

Postby SantanaAE86 » Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:01 pm

ogdougynutty wrote:Yeah that will be better. Trying to start off with the FCR's will be difficult because you will have no one to help you because the jet sizes dont match up. Now on the other hand, if you got mikuni (PHH) side drafts and the corresponding manifold i would say go for it.


Mikuni's , webers would be easier for me cause I know how to work and tune them and I saw one 20v with mikunis that thing is a beast but the thing that is confusing me is the ignition .
To convert these kind of engines to carb is a head ache man

jdm86gtz
Club4AG Expert
Posts: 306
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:13 pm
Location: Ireland

Re: how to do 20valve fcr carb??

Postby jdm86gtz » Sun Feb 01, 2015 9:18 am

I tried a 1E 12V distributor in a 20V head yesterday and they almost match up perfectly except for the bolt hole is approximately 1-2mm off.
1E dizzy has a points setup with external coil, 2E is an electronic dizzy with internal coil. 1E is 998cc 4 cyl and 2E is 1295cc http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_E_engine#2E

Having said that why would you want to replace itbs for carbs?


Image


Image

SantanaAE86
Club4AG Regular
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 8:38 am

Re: how to do 20valve fcr carb??

Postby SantanaAE86 » Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:05 pm

jdm86gtz wrote:I tried a 1E 12V distributor in a 20V head yesterday and they almost match up perfectly except for the bolt hole is approximately 1-2mm off.
1E dizzy has a points setup with external coil, 2E is an electronic dizzy with internal coil. 1E is 998cc 4 cyl and 2E is 1295cc http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_E_engine#2E

Having said that why would you want to replace itbs for carbs?


Image


Image

I was just wondering what all you have to do to convert a 4age 20v to carb cause I know a guy who is selling his 20v in very low price but the engine only without ecu and harness
Then I was thinking if i can't afford a stand alone how it would be with some carb , there's allot of 16v with carbs making some good power so why not trying out with a 20v?

Disable adblock

This site is supported by ads and donations.
If you see this text you are blocking our ads.
Please consider a Donation to support the site.



Return to “TECH: 4A-GE ENGINE”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests