Hi guys, my 20v blacktop dont wana start in cold weather.. pls help?!?
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Cold start
Re: Cold start
Hiya and welcome to club4AG 
Do you have a working Idle Speed Control Valve ?
Are you running on the factory ECU and factory sensors ?
Engine stock or modified ?
Engine needs more air and more fuel to start when cold,
and the factory setup takes care of that no problem if the
sensors and ISCV are connected and working correctly.
Cheers... jondee86
Do you have a working Idle Speed Control Valve ?
Are you running on the factory ECU and factory sensors ?
Engine stock or modified ?
Engine needs more air and more fuel to start when cold,
and the factory setup takes care of that no problem if the
sensors and ISCV are connected and working correctly.
Cheers... jondee86
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.
Re: Cold start
Thanx man.. got it started today, changed the plugs .. guy who tuned the car told me coldstart needs to be adjusted, any ideas on that? ... preciate the feedback[THUMBS UP SIGN]
Sent from my GT-S7580 using Tapatalk
Sent from my GT-S7580 using Tapatalk
Re: Cold start
If the engine is stock and running on the factory ECU, there is no cold start
adjustment
The ECU gets a temperature reading from the water and air
temperature sensors, and 12V on the STA pin when cranking. That's all it needs
to know for starting. The ECU will open the ISCV for more air and increase the
injector duration to provide more fuel.
All you need to do is check that the ISCV is working correctly, and that the
temperature sensors are getting the right readings. Fresh plugs and making
sure the inside and outside of the distributor cap are clean and dry is always
good. If it is cold and damp, condensation can cause high tension tracking
to ground if there is a good layer of dirt on the surface of the cap.
Cheers... jondee86
adjustment
The ECU gets a temperature reading from the water and air temperature sensors, and 12V on the STA pin when cranking. That's all it needs
to know for starting. The ECU will open the ISCV for more air and increase the
injector duration to provide more fuel.
All you need to do is check that the ISCV is working correctly, and that the
temperature sensors are getting the right readings. Fresh plugs and making
sure the inside and outside of the distributor cap are clean and dry is always
good. If it is cold and damp, condensation can cause high tension tracking
to ground if there is a good layer of dirt on the surface of the cap.
Cheers... jondee86
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.
Re: Cold start
Thanx man, will look into it tomorrow .. did not wana start again this morning and midday even, gets to a point where it cranks over and dies again .. by the way its not stock factory, motor is fitted into a tazz body.
Another thing I noticed yesterday on the ECU Map, the air reading shows error, any idea why?
Thnx bro!
Another thing I noticed yesterday on the ECU Map, the air reading shows error, any idea why?
Thnx bro!
Re: Cold start
OK... seems you don't have a factory setup, so what I have been
saying may not apply. No good me shooting in the dark, you need
to lay it out. What modifications, what ECU, what tuning mode
(AFM, TPS, MAP) etc.
I don't understand "air reading" ? Is that the manifold pressure
(MAP) reading ? If it is, and it is reading high istead of low, you
could check to see that the MAP sensor hose has not fallen off.
Cheers... jondee86
saying may not apply. No good me shooting in the dark, you need
to lay it out. What modifications, what ECU, what tuning mode
(AFM, TPS, MAP) etc.
I don't understand "air reading" ? Is that the manifold pressure
(MAP) reading ? If it is, and it is reading high istead of low, you
could check to see that the MAP sensor hose has not fallen off.
Cheers... jondee86
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.
Re: Cold start
Got it started again today, after cleaning the plugs that is.. think I need new plugs maybe?
Jb20v
Jb20v
Re: Cold start
Did they look like this...
... or this ?
Cheers... jondee86
... or this ?
Cheers... jondee86
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.
Re: Cold start
Like the first one, but not that bad either
Jb20v
Jb20v
Re: Cold start
Just read an article that says I should be using a hotter plug due to the cold temperatures and short trip driving. As you know carbon fouling is caused by the plug not reaching optimal self cleaning temperatures. Your thoughts?
Thanks!
Jb20v
Thanks!
Jb20v
Re: Cold start
Yes... I would try one heat range hotter plug. Black soot means you
are running rich some/most of the time. That black layer sucks up
raw fuel when the engine first cranks, and wets the plug. Then you
lose the spark.
Buy standard copper core plugs, and keep a spare set handy. A fresh
clean plug will always start better. Try and get the engine up to
temperature and drive a few miles at a decent speed at least once
a week.
Better explanation here...
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/tech_support/spark_plugs/faqs/faqfouled.asp?mode=nml
Cheers... jondee86
are running rich some/most of the time. That black layer sucks up
raw fuel when the engine first cranks, and wets the plug. Then you
lose the spark.
Buy standard copper core plugs, and keep a spare set handy. A fresh
clean plug will always start better. Try and get the engine up to
temperature and drive a few miles at a decent speed at least once
a week.
Better explanation here...
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/tech_support/spark_plugs/faqs/faqfouled.asp?mode=nml
Cheers... jondee86
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.
Re: Cold start
That's what I thought yes, will do that from the end of the month. By standard copper you mean? I was thinking BKR5E-11.
Thanx!
Jb20v
Thanx!
Jb20v
Re: Cold start
FSM says factory plug is NGK BKR6EP-11 (heat range 6, Platinum, gap 1.1mm).
You should be fine with BKR5E-11 standard type.
Cheers... jondee86
You should be fine with BKR5E-11 standard type.
Cheers... jondee86
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.
Re: Cold start
That's what I currently have in the car, the BKR6EP-11 .. will update once I've tried the BKR5E-11.
Thanx!
Jb20v
Thanx!
Jb20v
Re: Cold start
I have another query for you .. people at the dyno told me I need to have my ECU tested, its making the car drop RPMs .. I have experienced this on a couple of ocassions especially when hitting the throttle hard its almost like an instant loss in power .. what do you make of this?
Thanx!
Jb20v
Thanx!
Jb20v
Re: Cold start
Sounds like a lean stumble. What ECU do you have ?
Cheers... jondee86
Cheers... jondee86
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.
Re: Cold start
Dicktator standard
Jb20v
Jb20v
Re: Cold start
The Dicktator ECU has a "Throttle Pump" function designed to inject extra
fuel when the throttle is opened suddenly. The quicker the throttle is opened,
the bigger the squirt of extra fuel injected. You will need to have a PC loaded
with the Dicktator Standard software, connect it to the ECU and try some
adjustments.
Usually it is just a matter of adjusting the gain control until the engine no
longer stumbles when you open the throttle.
However, this is not something that would have changed by itself, so the
question is... did the engine start behaving differently after other work was
carried, or has it always had this stumble ?
Cheers... jondee86
fuel when the throttle is opened suddenly. The quicker the throttle is opened,
the bigger the squirt of extra fuel injected. You will need to have a PC loaded
with the Dicktator Standard software, connect it to the ECU and try some
adjustments.
Usually it is just a matter of adjusting the gain control until the engine no
longer stumbles when you open the throttle.
However, this is not something that would have changed by itself, so the
question is... did the engine start behaving differently after other work was
carried, or has it always had this stumble ?
Cheers... jondee86
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.
Re: Cold start
It has been adjusted(mapped & tuned) by a proffesional mechanic two weeks ago. I bought the car like that 3 months ago and haven't had any mechanical work done since, maybe the previous owner have not sure.
Thnx!
Jb20v
Thnx!
Jb20v
Re: Cold start
Hmmmm.... if the car has been tuned and mapped, then the tuner
should have been able to take care of any lean stumble issues. That
suggests that you have some other (unknown) problem. Off hand I can't
think of any ECU issue that would cause the engine to "lose rpm's" or
"suddenly lose power" but otherwise run fine.
Maybe you can get a more accurate/detailed description of the problem
from the tuner ? If the engine was momentarily losing fuel, it would have
shown up in the AFR readings. If it was losing spark momentarily, it
would have come back on with a decent backfire from the exhaust
Were you there while the car had the "losing rpm's" probem ? If it happens
while driving, does the car feel like someone switched the ignition off
and on quickly ? Are there any other symptoms you can descibe ?
Cheers... jondee86
should have been able to take care of any lean stumble issues. That
suggests that you have some other (unknown) problem. Off hand I can't
think of any ECU issue that would cause the engine to "lose rpm's" or
"suddenly lose power" but otherwise run fine.
Maybe you can get a more accurate/detailed description of the problem
from the tuner ? If the engine was momentarily losing fuel, it would have
shown up in the AFR readings. If it was losing spark momentarily, it
would have come back on with a decent backfire from the exhaust
Were you there while the car had the "losing rpm's" probem ? If it happens
while driving, does the car feel like someone switched the ignition off
and on quickly ? Are there any other symptoms you can descibe ?
Cheers... jondee86
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.
Re: Cold start
Not quite like that just feels like a momentary loss in power. It actually did backfire on the dyno and still does sometimes when applying full throttle while idling.. All the tuner told me was that everything is fine I just need to get the ECU tested and find out what's making the car do that..
Thnx!
Jb20v
Thnx!
Jb20v
Re: Cold start
I would try adjusting the TPS. But first mark the TPS and the throttle body so you can go back to the orignal TPS location. Adjust the TPS clock-wise 1 or 2mm and then try driving. If it improves you may have to adjust the TPS further. The screws holding the TPS to the TB is a real PITA to access. If you can find Allen socket screws for the attachment, it will make life much easier. I found a pair of ASHCS at Home Depot that was the perfect replacement. Dave W
Re: Cold start
Thanx dave , i'll see what I can do
Jb20v
Jb20v
Re: Cold start
bassonj85 wrote:All the tuner told me was that everything is fine I just need to get the
ECU tested and find out what's making the car do that..
Impossible to diagnose over the interweb... you need to try and get a log
that captures the fault occurring. If the car drives normally otherwise, you
will either have to live with it, or take it to a tuner who can pinpoint the
input or output that is misbehaving. Good luck
Cheers... jondee86
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.
Re: Cold start
Lol will see what I can do ..
Thnx!
Jb20v
Thnx!
Jb20v
Re: Cold start
Gonna make a big assumption here, but if you are in South Africa you
should ask a few questions here... http://maint.9000rpm.co.za/
The members are clued up on 20V engines and can probably hook you
up with someone local who can help.
Cheers... jondee86
should ask a few questions here... http://maint.9000rpm.co.za/
The members are clued up on 20V engines and can probably hook you
up with someone local who can help.
Cheers... jondee86
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.
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yoshimitsuspeed
- Club4AG MASTER
- Posts: 2084
- Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:18 pm
- Contact:
Re: Cold start
This is why I believe in tuning your own car. Basically IMO this thread is useless unless we got the tuner involved.
Do you even have a wideband to monitor AFRs?
Did the mechanic who tuned it? Saying the ECU needs to be tested seems fishy to me but again not enough info for anyone to give any solid input.
If you are going to have a car running aftermarket engine management I highly suggest getting the tools to tune it and getting as familiar as possible with tuning it and learning it's behaviors.
Do you even have a wideband to monitor AFRs?
Did the mechanic who tuned it? Saying the ECU needs to be tested seems fishy to me but again not enough info for anyone to give any solid input.
If you are going to have a car running aftermarket engine management I highly suggest getting the tools to tune it and getting as familiar as possible with tuning it and learning it's behaviors.
