4AGE Rebuilt, Before First Start Questions

[genki86x]

Hey all,

I'm about to start for the first time after a rebuild. I have a question about the fuel pump. I replaced the pump and am pretty sure I have everything wired. I took the spark plugs out and turned the motor over a good bit to prime the oil. After hooking the fuel pump wiring up in the rear, I notice I am not hearing any kind of priming for the fuel pump. Should I hear the pump, sort of like how it is on a motorcycle? I do hear the efi fuse clicking when I turn the key to on position. I am also trying to find the open circuit relay to test it. Just wanted to see if I should be hearing the pump.

[jondee86]

No... the fuel pump does not prime on an AE86. It does not get power until
you start cranking, but you can force it to run (for test purposes only) if you
want by jumping the FP test plug and turning the key ON.

Cheers... jondee86

[genki86x]

Thanks a lot for the clarification. It's time to start this thing then... =)

[sirdeuce]

IF you do want to prime the fuel system you can use a jumper in the test port. F to B+. Or, you can open the flap door in the AFM with the ignition turned to ON. Both will energize the pump circuit. Also gives you a chance to check the fuel system for leaks without running the engine. Reduces the fire hazard, start up cranking time and the rough run time at start up.

[genki86x]

So, I have tried to start after putting the spark plugs and wire set in. It is cranking and cranking, but I am hearing a consistent crank with no attempt at an actual start. I will go through the standard troubleshooting tomorrow of checking spark/air/fuel.

1. I have the distributor tighten so it does not move and realize that I will need to utilize a timing light once I get it started. That can be a little off and it will still start, right?
2. I will need to adjust the Throttle Position Sensor too, that should not prevent the car from even starting?
3. The NGK wire that goes from the ignition coil to the distributor comes out really easy for some reason. I am really pushing that thing in on both ends and it seems to slip out. Do I need to take some pliers and try to bend the ends out so it can get proper contact? Anyone else have this issue?
4. I took a wire and shorted the F to B+. After doing this, I turned the ignition to ON and I don't hear anything and can't tell if it is priming. I tried starting the car too, but get the same thing. Does this just bypass the Relay for the fuel pump?

I can post a video to YouTube maybe. I appreciate all the help so far and will try to go through a full diag. I should at least be getting some blips or hear some compression going on I would think...? No leaks in the fuel lines, smell no fumes. I will loosen the fuel line going to the cold start injector to see if the rail has gasoline in it I guess...? Oil pressure is building up real nice as I crank, that's got to be a good sign.

[sirdeuce]

Yes, the F - B bypasses the relay.

[jondee86]

Does this just bypass the Relay for the fuel pump?

Shorting the test plug or opening the AFM flap does the same thing... grounds
the relay coil in the COR. With the key ON, when the COR coil gets grounded
it closes the power circuit to the FP.

Assuming the engine is timed plus or minus one tooth from correct, you should
be getting some signs of the engine firing if you have fuel and spark. If you can't
smell fuel in the cylinders when you pull a plug after cranking, test as you suggest
to see if fuel is getting to the rail.

Cheers... jondee86

[genki86x]

Thanks for the suggestions. Again, thanks for the help. This is a complete rebuild and I will go through tomorrow to test and get results with whatever I can think of. I do have the service manual here that I am fingering through and will post some results. I will check that fuel now to see...I picked up an ignition/spark plug tester and I am getting spark to all cylinders. I still suspect that it is fuel. I am getting no signs at all of firing though. The motor is sounding smooth and is turning like a champ too. I am sure that I set the dizzy in right after having the cam marks and crank set to TDC before putting on the belt. I'll make a list, check it twice, and probably will post a video so I can get this gal running.

[genki86x]

I took one of the plugs out and smell no fuel. I unbolted the little banjo bolt for the cold start injector and shorted the jumper on the diag plug and switched to ON, still nothing. The rail seems dry. I did end up using fuel hose to replace the nylon line in the back which looks a little crimped. I will loosen that tomorrow and should technically short the jumper to see if fuel start pumping out from there, right? If it does, it could be too crimped and I may need to just buy a replacement line....or it could be this brand new fuel pump or the wiring to it. Jumping should rule out the circuit relay (for now).

[jondee86]

Jumping the FP test plug or opening the AFM flap with the key ON does not
bypass the COR. Grounding that circuit closes the contacts on the COR (circuit
opening relay) and that supplies 12V to the fuel pump.

First make sure you have 12V at the joiner on the trunk floor. There should
be four wires there...
- one yel-red for the fuel gauge sender
- one yel-red for the fuel low light
- one blu-blk for the fuel pump 12V supply,
plus a common wht-blk ground wire.

Disconnect the fuel pump wire at the joiner. Jump the test plug and check
that you have 12V to a chassis ground point. Then disconnect the common
ground wire and make sure that the end that does not connect to the pump
has a solid connection (continuity) to chassis ground. If you have 12V and
a solid ground, connect the wire up and see if the pump runs.

If you don't have 12V, there is a single-pin plug in the engine bay that has
to be connected. It is near the fuse box and connects to the very end of the
engine wiring loom. If that is not plugged in the engine will not run.

Cheers... jondee86

[genki86x]

All,

I will have some time tonight to see if the pump is getting the 12V. I happened to have a spare COR and I can actually hear that click...The old one would not click when I tested it, so its probably bad. I still cannot get any fuel though after replacing just this. I'll have more tonight with pictures. Thanks for all of the help. I need to reel this in and do the simple things now that I know that it is fuel.

[genki86x]

Alright guys. Today I did the following:

1. Swapped the COR and I can hear it clicking when I turn the key to start. This relay also clicks when I hook it up to a test battery.
2. I checked all of the fuses and relays in the fuse box and down on the kick panel box. There are some wires that are not plugged in (took pics to identify).
3. I hooked a multi-meter to the fuel pump wires in the rear. I am NOT getting any current when I turn the key to start or when I short the diag port and have the ignition set to ON. I took the air filter off and am opening the AFM flap as well, I get nothing.
4. I did notice that I had not screwed in the ground for the fuel injectors under the rail/intake manifold. I double checked all of my wiring and have taken pictures of all of the plugs that are not in use (I deleted cruise control/power steering/air conditioner).
5. I have the motor grounded to the right of the frame and one connection from the harness that comes from the starter. The transmission is grounded. I have not connected a ground wire from the left of the frame to the block on the left side yet.

These are the two imgur albums that I have on this. Any help at all would be appreciated to get this thing running. I will be speaking with my buddy tomorrow who can read the wire diagrams from the manuals I have so I can try to understand this better and hopefully figure it out.

http://imgur.com/a/0tqNm
(I realize that I have the fuel pump wires unhooked in the picture. I am getting continuity from the pump side.)

http://imgur.com/a/UXZjD
(There is quite a bit unhooked under the steering columb...I may have missed something vital...)

[genki86x]

That single pin plug you bought up...that connects to the ground on the chassis and to the right of the block, right? That is plugged in and I made sure to get to bare metal with that.

[jondee86]

That single pin plug you bought up...

The one I was referring to is on the driver's side. A black single-pin
plug on the end of a short red-black wire that drops out of the fuse
box beside the battery. It runs into the end of the engine harness
together with the distributor wires and the oil pressure wire.

Cheers... jondee86

[allencr]

Work on one thing at a time & work in one direction... from the battery to the fuel pump - all the connections & components in between them, or in the other direction from the other end -test the fuel pump with current directly to it and then checking the wiring& connectors& parts all the way up to the battery.
Shotgunning bits & pieces of everything everywhere is just going to spin you around in circles.

[mad_86]

if you just rebuilt the motor , and your car ran before you rebuilt it

Double Check Your TDC,first at the crank,the intake Cam Notch,Cam gear, and also at the notch for oil pump,
if all line up then reset your dizzy, so you are 100% timing is set right. then follow what jondee86 says lol

[genki86x]

Got it. I am in the garage now and will double check it all, including the timing. Even if the timing was off, I would think fuel would still be in the rail, right? I will check it all from the batt to the inside and will report. Thanks again for helping with this.

[genki86x]

I hooked 12V to Blue/Black on the pump wire side with ground. I hear the pump loud and clear so I will cross off the pump for now. Starting from under the hood and checking all of my grounds first from right/left side of block to the chassis and transmission ground.

[genki86x]

So....I've checked timing. It is dead on. I pulled the dizzy and it's aligned just fine. I've grounded the hell out of my motor with additional 90A rated wire from the left/right of the block to the chassis on fresh metal. I've made sure the transmission is grounded. I have identified all of the plugs that are not in use, and they are all for the cruise/power steering/AC systems not in use. I've plugged in my O2 sensor that I forgot. The one thing that gets me is the OCR is not clicking or engaging at all either when jumped from the diag or when I open the AFM flap. I am referencing the Toyota Electrical Wiring Diagram book and chasing the power wire from this relay and have tested it all the way to the battery. I am now chasing the ground of this all the way back to see what is going on. I honestly think there is a grounding issue in the harness, has to be. I'll keep looking and will post results. Thanks for keeping me on the right track. I have been getting anxious to start and I'll never get there without doing this methodically.

[jondee86]

One coil in the COR is energised by the flap in the AFM closing a circuit to ground.
There is a green-red wire in to the AFM and a brown wire out to ground. This is one
of the control circuits that cause the COR to close its internal contacts (it has two
separate coils). When the AFM switch closes and energises its coil, the contacts get
12V in on the black-red wire and send 12V out to the fuel pump on the blue-red wire.

The second coil that can also close the contacts in the COR is only energised when
the engine is cranking (key in crank position). But it is the same set of contacts
that get closed, and the same 12V that you get by opening the flap.

Dang... I hope that is easier to understand than it was to write

Cheers... jondee86

[genki86x]

I completely understand what you just wrote. I've been staring at the electrical diagrams for hours and have watched a few electrical 101 videos and read several articles on how to read diagrams. I did take basic electronics in aviation school many years ago. I think we are getting closer here though. Thanks a thousand times for sticking with me on this. Can't wait to post the video of it starting lol

[genki86x]

Now...could it be the ECU? If so, I'll try to get a replacement here...In troubleshooting, the check engine warning light does not turn on while in the ON position as stated in my service manual...That, and the diagnostics have not worked. This suggests the ECU in the flow chart.

[morgan]

if the pump isn't turning on, check the multi wire ground that is under the #2 injector. it has about 4 brown with black trace wires going to the loop. it bolts to the intake manifold. that grounds injectors and afm.

[genki86x]

I will admit. I did initially have that ground unhooked. I will scuff that area up and will hook another separate ground wire to that tonight. Will keep all posted. Thanks!

[genki86x]

Alright...still no dice and I'm going to continue to get data. I understand what closes the relay.

1. I have continuity from the blue/red wire at the pump to two of the pins going to the OCR.
2. I have ground going to the white/black wire that goes to the fuel pump.
3. Tested the fuel pump with a spare battery and it works.
4. Get continuity from the diagnostic plug to power wire to the pump.
5. Get continuity to all proper pins of AFM to the OCR plug.
6. Took sandpaper and refreshed bare metal to the ground under the fuse box, the ground under Injector 2.
7. Checked ground from single black wire after distributor to left chassis ground.
8. Cleaned all connections and reset plug-ins going to fuse box. Checked all wires to make sure there are no frays.
9. Checked the timing and the distributor.
10. Checked all the relays for continuity using a spare battery.
12. Replaced all fuses.
14. Fully charged my battery. It is brand new. Tested, and it checks out.

I still have the following issues.

When I try to bypass to the pump by jumping on the diagnostic port and turn the key to ON, I get or hear nothing. Should I be getting any current to the B+ port in diag while ignition is set to ON? I am not.

I cannot get the fuel pump to engage when I open the AFM flap.

When I try to START, the engine is cranking fine. I hear the OCR click, but I had my friend listen to the pump and it's not powering. I have no fuel in the rail still.

The only thing I need to track now is why power is not going through the OCR. Figured I'd pass off all of my data to see if anyone sees a pattern. Thanks again. This is what DIY is all about and I'm getting better at the electrical stuff.

[genki86x]

I'm thinking about getting one of those wire tone generators. Any recommendations?

[jondee86]

The ignition switch supplies 12V to energise the EFI Main Relay and Engine Main Relay
in the underhood fuse box. The EFI Main Relay then outputs 12V to Pins A1 and A8 on
the ECU. This 12V supply not only powers up the ECU, but is also used to provide 12V to
the AFM-switched side of the COR. This 12V supply is also the supply that is connected
to the B pin in the test plug, and I now guess that instead of the round yellow 2-pin FP
Test Plug, you have one of these...



So, when you turn the ignition key ON, you should see the ignition light on the dash
turn ON, and 12V should appear at the B pin in the diagnosis box. Which leads me to this...

jondee86 wrote:
The one I was referring to is on the driver's side. A black single-pin
plug on the end of a short red-black wire that drops out of the fuse
box beside the battery. It runs into the end of the engine harness
together with the distributor wires and the oil pressure wire.

Did you ever find/check that this wire is connected ?

Cheers... jondee86

[genki86x]

Dang jondee...you were right 100 percent. I ended up taking the quarter panel off and unhooked everything front hat side of the harness and found this wire. It was completely hidden under the ground wire to the battery. I have learned some important lessons lol...time to make a start video and post it. Many many thanks.

[jondee86]

Happy to hear that you got there in the end

Cheers... jondee86