so i got a 4agze block and tanked it, got it nitrate treated and x-rayed and balaanced crank. im going with cp pistons and BC rods (82mm pistons) with 9.0 comp. now the question is:

how much head work should i be looking into? Cams,bigger valves, retainers, springs etc... at this compression what should i be looking at to make the engine build hp isnted how of having it drag and lose hp. btw this is gonna be my daily car, so will the tiny T50 hold up?

after i got my TRD LSD and arp bolts (block is on a stand now lol)

84Hachi17 wrote:so i got a 4agze block and tanked it, got it nitrate treated and x-rayed and balaanced crank. im going with cp pistons and BC rods (82mm pistons) with 9.0 comp. now the question is:

how much head work should i be looking into? Cams,bigger valves, retainers, springs etc... at this compression what should i be looking at to make the engine build hp isnted how of having it drag and lose hp. btw this is gonna be my daily car, so will the tiny T50 hold up?

after i got my TRD LSD and arp bolts (block is on a stand now lol)

Are you still on the SC12?
How much boost are you running?
What are your power goals?

I don't understand if you are telling us you have cams, valves etc or asking if you need them.

I love helping out with builds like this but a little more detail in calm thought out sentences would help a ton.

Hit me up for any parts you still need. I can get everything you named above and much more and can usually beat anyone else's prices.

http://matrixgarage.com/store

im going NA, its the 4agze block on a twin cam NA head.
looking for 200+ hp, i was asking if i need those components. what i have is Tomei adjustable cam gears and a stock 16v head
thanks for the help !

Well for starters you choose the wrong pistons for an NA build. 9:1 are for a boosted build and then even too low for my taste unless you are running a ton of boost. You could go with the CP 12:1 pistons or I could get you custom wiseco's specifically designed around your build.

I don't want to sound rude but based off your goals and your questions are you sure you aren't getting in over your head?
200 HP even crank HP on a 4AGE is no easy feat and it will not be cheap. You could throw a turbo on there and hit 200 WHP for probably at least a third the price.

What are your goals for the motor?
What is your budget?
Why an NA 4A?
Have you considered the other options?
How much experience do you have tuning motors? even once it's built you have a long road to a well tuned motor making the power it should.

Side note. The only thing making a GZE a GZE is the supercharger, the GZE pistons and the ECU. Remove those things and it's not a 4AGZE and no different than any other 4AGE.

its actually my first 4age build the pistons and rods were given to me i was just seeing if i could us them for the build.
I havent looked at any turbo/supercharged alternatives, probably cause my main goal is to use ITB's just because of the sound.
but i'm not say i have to get 200 hp out of it.
It'd just like to have a fun street reliable coupe

i knew i was in over my head the moment i machined the block lol
tuning wont be a problem once i get there. getting there is

budget wise im looking in at 2,500 on the engine but i know im gonna go over it regardless

I think now is as good a time as you are going to have to step back and really plan your strategy. You are going to get nowhere near 200 hp NA on $2,500. Just setting up engine management and ITBs could tap that budget.
200 NA hp could easily be 2-4 times that much.
You are also going to need to figure out what's important. From a performance standpoint ITBs are a waste of time and money till you get close to that 200 hp point and probably $6000-$8000 into your build. Personally I like performance and don't really understand doing something because it looks cool or because it sounds cool. Makes me think of whistle tips and putting fake BOVs on NA cars. Now if I can make something look and sound cool in pursuit of performance that's cool but it always takes the back seat.
The cost of doing ITBs on a 16v doesn't make sense to me because for a little more you could buy a full 20v with them already attached.

So if we stick strictly to your budget there are a couple options.
Since you already have boost ready pistons it seems like a pretty logical route. I don't know what you have done already but I'm going to guess at the very least you are looking at another $500 just to get it bolted back together again.
That leaves you $2k for a turbo, mani, exhaust work, and all the other stuff you will need to get it up and running. If your car already has a 4AGE in it you should be able to come pretty close to that number. With the stock ECU and a beefy bottom end you could probably get 160-180 WHP. From there you will be mainly limited by the stock ECU. The biggest advantage of going this route is you have cheap easy room to grow. Upgrade the ECU and the sky is your limit.

$2500 option two.
Instead of the turbo kit you sell those pistons and buy some 11:1 to 12:1s, some big cams and a few other odds and ends and put the motor back together.
On the stock ECU you might be able to hit 140-150 WHP.
The downsides of this route is that every mod you do and every HP you strive for after this point is going to get exponentially more expensive much faster than the turbo build will.


Next option would be $3k to $6k
Do all of turbo build listed above plus some cams, engine management, better turbo and a few other bits. Now you are set for a comfortable and reliable 300+ HP with potential for a lot more as you learn to tune it.
There are some options like P&P and things that will give you better efficiency and more peak potential.

Next option $6k to $12k
Get the head worked, buy some huge cams, 12:1-14:1 pistons, block reinforcement, ITB conversion, reinforced oil pump, and a bunch of other odds and ends along with your aftermarket engine management.
Build the motor to rev to 10k+ RPM and start tuning it.
With a build like this and for the above budget you can probably hit your 200+ target.

yoshimitsuspeed wrote:I don't want to sound rude but based off your goals and your questions are you sure you aren't getting in over your head?
200 HP even crank HP on a 4AGE is no easy feat and it will not be cheap. You could throw a turbo on there and hit 200 WHP for probably at least a third the price.

What are your goals for the motor?
What is your budget?
Why an NA 4A?
Have you considered the other options?
How much experience do you have tuning motors? even once it's built you have a long road to a well tuned motor making the power it should.

Side note. The only thing making a GZE a GZE is the supercharger, the GZE pistons and the ECU. Remove those things and it's not a 4AGZE and no different than any other 4AGE.

I was thinking the exact same thing. So far a lot of money has been thrown at this thing with no prior planning or research.

Some stuff I think the OP needs to learn about.
- relationship between cams, overlap, and static compression.
- realistic power goals
- how the entire vehicle, is a system, not a pile of parts.
- Race or street car. if this is a street car, you have to drive it on the street. Big Cams, High comp, horrible idle and no cat, will make it a PITA to drive at anything other than full blast.
- emissions and safety. Do you need smog and safety inspection in your state? Are your brakes up to the task? Suspension?

There's a lot more, but i think you get the gist of it.

To tell you the truth, IMO, AE86 is more fun with a mild built 4age, p&p head, 264 cams, high comp(small port) pistons, IHE. Very mild, easy to drive setup. Plus you dont have to rebuild every year. RELIABILITY.

4age is a high strung engine already, too much and it just becomes unreliable.