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Massive Flares question
Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:22 pm
by BlueDeathTrap
Does anyone know of any US based companies that make silly wide flares? I'm going to be in need of some in the near-ish future (approximately 6 months), and the sizes I'm running are a bit.... excessive. I've done my measurements, I'm going to need approximately 5.5" flares up front and 6.5" flares out back. This is from the main body line, not from the factory flare part. Any ideas? Or am I just going to need to fab my own? Thanks for any help!
EDIT: Whoops, sorry, forgot to mention this is for an AE86.
Re: Flares question
Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:06 am
by SidekickChuck
I think with those sizes, you would need custom metal work to extend your flares.
Re: Flares question
Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:52 pm
by BlueDeathTrap
Ah I figured as such. Well, seeing as there will be very little structure for the metal to be held by, looks like I'll be teaching myself composites as well this year. Looks like I'll be busy.
Re: Massive Flares question
Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:48 pm
by Skizzup
in a few months a very reputable company will be releasing flares around that size. i cant say too much, but keep an eye open. lol
Re: Massive Flares question
Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:30 pm
by BlueDeathTrap
Skizzup wrote:in a few months a very reputable company will be releasing flares around that size. i cant say too much, but keep an eye open. lol
Excellent, might save me some time so I can focus on other aspects of this build! It's a bit difficult finding flares for silly offset wheels.
Re: Massive Flares question
Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:21 pm
by jondee86
N2 flares not wide enough ?
Maybe you could put a "clip-on" flare on the outside of them ?
Cheers... jondee86
Re: Massive Flares question
Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:59 pm
by BlueDeathTrap
jondee86 wrote:N2 flares not wide enough ?
Maybe you could put a "clip-on" flare on the outside of them ?
Cheers... jondee86
They might work, but $$$ for genuine after shipping and even replicas are difficult to obtain stateside. The only thing I've found that'll come close enough are either DMAC N3 (1000 + shipping for just the flares) or the custom ones on the new DriftWorks AE86 with the LS swap. Current wheel sizes and offsets are 15x8.5 -60someodd front and 15x10 -70 rear after longer control arms and spacers to clear the new brake calipers. I may be off by a bit, but yeah, it's quite wide.
An idea of approximate width:
Re: Massive Flares question
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:32 pm
by redroku87
BlueDeathTrap wrote:jondee86 wrote:N2 flares not wide enough ?
Maybe you could put a "clip-on" flare on the outside of them ?
Cheers... jondee86
They might work, but $$$ for genuine after shipping and even replicas are difficult to obtain stateside. The only thing I've found that'll come close enough are either DMAC N3 (1000 + shipping for just the flares) or the custom ones on the new DriftWorks AE86 with the LS swap. Current wheel sizes and offsets are 15x8.5 -60someodd front and 15x10 -70 rear after longer control arms and spacers to clear the new brake calipers. I may be off by a bit, but yeah, it's quite wide.
An idea of approximate width:
One word:
Why?
If you think you need to roll that wide get another car.
Re: Massive Flares question
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:33 pm
by redroku87
jondee86 wrote:N2 flares not wide enough ?
Maybe you could put a "clip-on" flare on the outside of them ?
Cheers... jondee86
If I could find a pre-flared interior-less AE86 or something that I would not feel an ounce of sympathy for cutting up, I would totally do this.
Where can I get the N2 style flares?
Re: Massive Flares question
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:47 pm
by BlueDeathTrap
redroku87 wrote:One word:
Why?
If you think you need to roll that wide get another car.
I respond to that with why not? I think it'll be fun, and with the additional power from my swap (and completely retarded choice of gearing via the gearbag/rear diff) it should turn my 225/50s into a hellish plume of choking, sulfurous smoke without any form of provocation. And if it looks like a skateboard and upsets the purists, so much the better.
Re: Massive Flares question
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:54 pm
by redroku87
Hellaflush looks
hellarice and again bro, why?
Get a 350Z, call it a day. At least it comes with an engine that would smoke the tires better.
Doesn't piss me off, it's your car and its your prerogative. Do what makes you happy, I am just thinking practical.
Mine is a complete and total resto/garage queen and I am fine with that.
Re: Massive Flares question
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:03 pm
by BlueDeathTrap
Don't have the cash for a 350Z, plus there's a leg's length of reasons I wouldn't have one.
And insofar as engines go, I'm covered. V8 geared like a 4age should make it shuffle well enough, if not, there's always cams and headwork to make it shuffle a bit more.
LEASTNINJAEDITSEENBYMANKIND: On the side note of practicality, we're playing with nearly 30 year old econoboxes with suspension designs originally created over 50 years ago. And people are attempting to make them as fast as modern cars. Practicality is pretty much out the window at this stage
Re: Massive Flares question
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:19 pm
by Nick94tt
Sounds like an excuse to build/buy/borrow an english wheel and pick up some aluminum.
Or just go for the carved stump and mallets.
Could always do a test run with a hood skin. They'd come out much better if you made a buck first. (soft aluminum can be lightly hammered on the buck provided it's substantial)
Re: Massive Flares question
Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:28 pm
by BlueDeathTrap
Nick, that's been a thought actually, biggest concern is additional weight on the outer skin, given the lack of reinforcement it'll have (tube framing the rear of the car, tired of fighting the floorpan for every change I want to make). I'm still scoping out options since I have plenty of time to build, so I'll keep that one in the back pocket along with composites.
Re: Massive Flares question
Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:57 pm
by futurehachi
Can anyone explain to me how they maintained the structural integrity of the unibody whilst cutting the fenders out that much? Cut and re-weld together or???
Just a bit perplexed... thanks
Re: Massive Flares question
Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:58 pm
by BlueDeathTrap
FutureHachi: Massive cage mostly. Most of the floor has been cut away anyway to facilitate cooling due to rear mounted radiator. Strengthen suspension turrets and hard points, cage with lots of triangulation, and viola, stiff car with lots of metal cut away and no loss of rigidity (likely there was a significant gain actually due to the cage structure).
Re: Massive Flares question
Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:13 pm
by idreamofdrifting
BlueDeathTrap wrote:jondee86 wrote:N2 flares not wide enough ?
Maybe you could put a "clip-on" flare on the outside of them ?
Cheers... jondee86
They might work, but $$$ for genuine after shipping and even replicas are difficult to obtain stateside. The only thing I've found that'll come close enough are either DMAC N3 (1000 + shipping for just the flares) or the custom ones on the new DriftWorks AE86 with the LS swap. Current wheel sizes and offsets are 15x8.5 -60someodd front and 15x10 -70 rear after longer control arms and spacers to clear the new brake calipers. I may be off by a bit, but yeah, it's quite wide.
An idea of approximate width:
Re: Massive Flares question
Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:30 pm
by BlueDeathTrap
I'm still at a loss as to how this is rice. Their build is actually a massive evolution in AE86 tuning, perhaps it's just lost on this side of the pond.
Nevertheless thanks to everyone who's helped so far! Hopefully my project will finally start coming together soon so I can share pics! Now though it's time to find a proper crucible so I can start casting the blasted intake manifolds.
Re: Massive Flares question
Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:31 pm
by futurehachi
BlueDeathTrap wrote:FutureHachi: Massive cage mostly. Most of the floor has been cut away anyway to facilitate cooling due to rear mounted radiator. Strengthen suspension turrets and hard points, cage with lots of triangulation, and viola, stiff car with lots of metal cut away and no loss of rigidity (likely there was a significant gain actually due to the cage structure).
I kind of figured. I would really love a set, but even for normal flares I am clueless as far as how to cut my fenders without losing the integrity of the unibody without a cage.
Re: Massive Flares question
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 8:28 am
by BlueDeathTrap
futurehachi wrote:BlueDeathTrap wrote:FutureHachi: Massive cage mostly. Most of the floor has been cut away anyway to facilitate cooling due to rear mounted radiator. Strengthen suspension turrets and hard points, cage with lots of triangulation, and viola, stiff car with lots of metal cut away and no loss of rigidity (likely there was a significant gain actually due to the cage structure).
I kind of figured. I would really love a set, but even for normal flares I am clueless as far as how to cut my fenders without losing the integrity of the unibody without a cage.
With much more "normal" sized flares (14s and 15s etc) you reattach the wheel tubs to the fender and it helps maintain structural stability. The DW car has custom made tubs that tie in and the panel replacement is pretty extensive but it is still sturdy. Normal flares like CBY and the like require only a small amount of trimming (usually around 1/2 to 1" above the factory flare arch), the only reason DW went so large is that they had to run a large wheel/tire combo due to tire rules for their class and their power output.
Re: Massive Flares question
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:41 am
by futurehachi
BlueDeathTrap wrote:futurehachi wrote:BlueDeathTrap wrote:FutureHachi: Massive cage mostly. Most of the floor has been cut away anyway to facilitate cooling due to rear mounted radiator. Strengthen suspension turrets and hard points, cage with lots of triangulation, and viola, stiff car with lots of metal cut away and no loss of rigidity (likely there was a significant gain actually due to the cage structure).
I kind of figured. I would really love a set, but even for normal flares I am clueless as far as how to cut my fenders without losing the integrity of the unibody without a cage.
With much more "normal" sized flares (14s and 15s etc) you reattach the wheel tubs to the fender and it helps maintain structural stability. The DW car has custom made tubs that tie in and the panel replacement is pretty extensive but it is still sturdy. Normal flares like CBY and the like require only a small amount of trimming (usually around 1/2 to 1" above the factory flare arch), the only reason DW went so large is that they had to run a large wheel/tire combo due to tire rules for their class and their power output.
Oh. That makes sense... thanks.
Re: Massive Flares question
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:37 pm
by Nick94tt
BlueDeathTrap wrote:Nick, that's been a thought actually, biggest concern is additional weight on the outer skin, given the lack of reinforcement it'll have (tube framing the rear of the car, tired of fighting the floorpan for every change I want to make). I'm still scoping out options since I have plenty of time to build, so I'll keep that one in the back pocket along with composites.
I rarely get to say this... Given the current fad for riveting/bolting things to the body of a corolla, you might not actually increase mass with the flares if you did them in aluminum. (or thinner steel) Have someone do up a rough test set (simple even curve on a large sheet - there are a lot of aluminum bodied panel vans/tops/etc in the junkyard for $25-$50- you cut out with a zip wheel to fit) then wire-edge them. (they hammer the edge over wire) Or build a pattern from scratch with heavy paper -think beer/soda cases + duct/packing tape + razor/xacto/scissors to make curve forming easier... Most of what was built in the early years was done this way. A lot of resto work (aluminum panels with steel wire trapped at the edges) holds up 20-30+ years. Should be negligible weight gain (if at all) and hold up just fine.
For structural concerns - Check out the Locost 7 owners and their trouble with front "fenders" cracking mounts. If you're riveting these to the side of your car, they're not structural. (A thin bit of cork/neoprene gasket under the flange against the body would help out) Just a garnish. The cage and supporting structural work handles the rest. Just dressing up a tube steel gift box and need them to stay attached at 100+mph.
Think of it like a fiberglass bumper on a crash bar. It's only purpose is to stay attached, move a bit of air, look pretty, and bend/break/shatter without tearing up the important bits of the car.
Not sure where you're at, but metalmeet.com has a lot of members. Any of which would likely take a crack at it if you showed up with the car, materials, enthusiasm, (and possibly beer)....
The only real downside here is that they'll eventually get trashed.
Planning to facilitate something simple early on will pay dividends.
Sorry about the wall of text. Couple beers in, have a thing for metal shaping.
Re: Massive Flares question
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:35 pm
by BlueDeathTrap
Nick, no worries on the long reply, it's greatly appreciated. I figured worst case I could use a dimple died angle running along the window frames and such made out of light steel to at least give it some reinforcement, but I'll definitely be checking out the metalmeet forum.
As an aside, I really need these to hold on now, just found a better rear end ratio for the car, estimated top speed (given gear ratios) will be 171, I think I'll come close given that it usually only takes about 250 horsepower to hit 165 (very old Slownrusty post).
Re: Massive Flares question
Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:16 pm
by BlueDeathTrap
Been looking into a lot of things as this year has gone by. Got preoccupied with another project (casting shibuichi jewelry for a friend's birthday gift, my god copper is weird to work with), getting back into the rolla build. Looking into 17s now, tires are extremely plentiful, and given the new bolt pattern for my heap I can run inexpensive American made wheels vs. "gimme your wallet and 3 organs" priced Japanese stuff. Thinking I'll be hammering out the flares in steel for this go, so I'll post up pics once that's started. Fair warning, it'll be a long while, I've much to do and most of it will likely piss you guys off, so I'll just save the flare pics and possibly wheels (looking into 17x9.5 front and 17x11 rear, yes, it'll spin them without much trouble).