AE86 with A/C...

[WindingRoad]

Hello All, it has been a long time since I logged back on, but glad to see the updated forum. Recently, I have been wanting to get back into an AE86.

I test drove the FRS this past weekend, and it felt like a mix between my S2000 and WRX; nothing like what I remembered to be the original 86.

Anyways, I will started looking for another AE86, but with a few new rules: No more fully stripped interior, no more race suspension, no more loud exhaust, and definitely will require A/C.

Who still have an A/C in their AE86? How well does it work? I never had A/C in any of my 6 hachirokus, so wouldn't know.

I have been seeing a bunch for sale (even at ridiculous prices, I remember I got most of mine for less than $1k), but most do not have a functional A/C. Anyone use an aftermarket A/C unit and retrofitted it to the car?

[gotzoom?]

The days of $1000 Corolla GTS cars seem to largely be in the past. In my area, beat SR5 cars typically sell for $1500-2000.

I have AC in my zenki car and it was working until recently. The compressor clutch seems to not be working now, but I'm not sure if I just got some mud in it from going off track in the wet. My fan box also has somethig wrong with it, so I can really only put the fan switch to the first position. The AC system still has R12 in it, though. It's typically the schraeder valve seals that go bad and cause the system to leak, so if the covers are still on the feed and bleed valves, it's possible the system may still work. For sure, my car was not touched since 2002, but I have no way of knowing if the system was fixed and recharged prior to that point. If you turn the AC and fan on and the AC button blinks, it means the clutch on the compressor is not working.

[Red]

Car & I are in NY. AC last checked in the fall, evaporator replaced & system recharged about 2 years ago so it should still be 100%. About 109k miles on the car and a lot of work in the last couple or three years (clutch, brakes, shocks, hatch rods) including new Michelins last year, so it wouldn't be a thousand dollar car. But if you're willing to spend, and buy it from NY this month...My arm could be twisted at the right price. get in, hit the key, she'll take you home wherever that is, reliably.

[SolidSTI]

I have a new compressor, R134 conversion, evap, etc.

It is "tolerable". It is NOTHING like my Prelude or STI's A/C.

[grappletech]

Mine works pretty well, no funky smells or anything.

[Red]

The AC in these cars was always deserving of the word "riceburner". Never as good as a Detroit product until years later.

I'd suspect that whoever designed the cars made a beginner's mistake because they use the same system for the coupe and the hatch, and the big glass hatch and extra cabin space require a lot more cooling than a coupe does.

Of course in the 80's AC wasn't standard equipment on anything except luxury cars.

There's also apparently a design defect in the AE8x ventilation system. leaves and grass cuttings that land on the base of the windshield get sucked in past the screen on the vent intake, and eventually pile up and turn to sludge on top of the evaporator. That rots out the evaporator and then you've got a major repair. When mine was replaced the shop gave me a can of evaporator cleaner: You hook it up to the drain hose, fill the plenum with "shaving cream", which then dissolves and is supposed to take most of the crud out as it drains.

Who knew it existed. Or that so much crud could get into such a bad place?

[Yosuke]

Paging Avocado II

[mad_86]

i had my a/c on my 86 it just need to be refilled with R12, blew nice and cold but
when the a/c was on it took a big load on the engine that you can feel in traffic but cruising on the highway
felt fine

[Red]

Highway cruising, on the level around 60, is supposed to take only about 12hp even for a larger car. So with 112hp for the AE88, and what is it, 96 hp for the AE86? either one can easily spare the 5hp for the AC on the highway.

Try that when you're in 5th gear hitting a 5% maximum hill grade on the interstate, and you may not be so happy.<G> Even without the AC on, the AE88 has to be turning 4400rpm with the buttefly open to accelerate up one of those without dropping a gear.

The good news is that the price of R12 seems to have dropped to about $30/pound, at least from some sources.

[BoRoYaSui]

I am going to fix my ac in my gts. Going to replace the compressor and the drier first and fill it with R12. I will post the result when i finish.

[Red]

Boro, have you done AC work before or are you new to this?

[BoRoYaSui]

nope never done any ac work.

[Red]

Well, it is "just plumbing" but if you have ever tried to hook up a garden hose without it leaking on you, you get the idea.

Each piece has to be surgically clean, inside and out, before you hook them up. And each joint sealed with a clean new o-ring. Any rubber hoses should be new, IIRC there are two in the system coming off the compressor. And you want to buy a leak test kit, like a UV test light and dye, before you start. Add the UV dye before you put any gas it, and follow instructions to the letter trying to confirm the system is good. You'll need a vacuum pump (or hire out) to put a hard vacuum on the system and see if it holds, before you even put any gas in. Oh, don't skip the Schrader valves, the fill ports on the tubes and the compressor. Unscrew and replace the valve core, there's an o-ring on it and those are easy to skip.

And if you can, you start by charging it up with inert nitorgen, which is cheap, and leak test it with that before dumping in $100 worth of R12. There's a surprising amount of equipment you need to DIY on the system, and most AC shops don't want to go "partners" on anything, they want to do the whole job or none.

So it is "just plumbing" but take some time, read up on it, getting it right canbe a major job. Getting it wrong can be years of chasing leaks and expensive refills. (Got the t-shirt.) And if you plan to do it all, no reputible source will sell you R12 unless you have an EPA license to handle it. About $50 for an online certification from places like Mainstream. The folks who don't demand your certificate, are more likely to be selling counterfeit, reclaimed, contaminated, etc. R12. There's apparently been a long history of that because after all, you've got no easy way to tell what is in a can. Short of buying a gas analyer, and you don't even want to ask.<G>

I'm much happier inthe winter, when all I need is heat. Damned riceburner, doesn't have a whole lot of that either.<G>

[jinx]

i think the engineers did a very good job with the ac system, sizing the components. Mine would freeze your az off... with a little tweaking. Definitely a fan on the condensor helped for traffic stop & go. A friend turned a little trim pot on the pc board, in the little ac control box (amplifier? located on the evaporator housing behind the glove box). Akin to "setting the thermostat" I'd imagine. In the mid day south florida sun, with no tint on the windows, u could see frost comin off the vents occasionally.
Same for my ae and te rollas, hatch or coupe. All R12

[Red]

Dunno, Jinx. Mine was installed at the port of entry, which is "factory" air. Never was cold compared to Detroit air, from day one. And it stayed the same way for over ten years. Checked the specs (temperature, relative humidity) per the manual, it was correctly in spec, that just isn't cold like a Detroit product.

Frost from the vents? Most unusual, even if that's just condensation.

Up here in the North, we expect to get in a car, fire it up, and have the front windshield defroster able to melt the ice at the base of the windshield and liberate the wipers. Toyota can't do that. And heaven help you if the rear side windows have iced up a bit from your breath in the winter that ice is staying till spring, Toyota can't push enough heat back there either. The system lacks capacity, hot or cold, compared to "real" cars. (Of course it is better than those old Peugot or Renault, which need those zipper things to block off the radiator and get heat in the winter.<G>)

Tuning the AC "amplifier" is supposed to affect how often it runs, IIRC, but not how cold the system gets. That's based on the charge and other things, and again, this one was in spec on all of it.

Two years ago I had the evaporator & compressor replaced, entire system tested and restored by a dealer in Florida who knows how to set them up right. You know what? No different from what it was new. Cool, yes. Cold? No. Dunno what your friend tweaked or why yours is "cold" but I'd have to guess it is that Florida definition of cold, you know, "Wow, its going to be fifty degrees out today, we'd better stay in!"

No, really...In the 1980's you couldn't give these cars away in the southeast, and the wimpy AC was one of the reasons why. If you're skinny and easily cooled, it might do. But stick a thermometer in the vent, stick one by the seat, compare it to a new Toyota or even Kia, and you'll see these cars are, well, underendowed.<G>

I may love it, but it ain't a '69 GTO. You can make toast, or ice cubes, on the dash of that if you want to.

[jinx]

yes, 'most unusual' is exactly what I'm saying. I've never met another rwd rolla owner who did the same to their ac.
....and yes, I'd label the "stock" ac as barely adequate also.
...and yes, I am slim, but hardly bothered by temperature swings as much as "the average guy". Whenever a passenger rode in my old rollas, it would only be a matter of time before they either, commented on the ac, closed the vent, folded their arms or outright asked me to adjust it, etc.... so it wasn't 'my' imagination or a 'me' thing.
Dunno what more I should have expected from an ac system, quite frankly.
Based on the final outcome, I'd say, the guy musta known what he was doing, u reckon.
I would know nothing about heat. And the fan is not that 'strong' either.

I remember my ac guy showing me the high? side gauge 'drop' with just a squirt of water on the condensor... which is why a fan wound up there. He went straight for the ac amp, puled out the pc board and did his thing.
Don't recall the actual vent temp, but after he was done (on the first rolla), he commented, "hmmmm not bad at all"... whatever that meant -lol. Translation... it worked, and worked 'well'. Without that number, we'll just call it "cool" then.

[BlackStar]

All this talk of A/C repair makes me nervous. My SR5 had A/C, it's missing a compressor and 1 hose that connects to the compressor. While I haven't gotten the new nose, I have gotten the compressor, and was just figuring on installing everything "as-is" to see if any of the A/C stuff even works. Now I am contemplating if it would eve be worth it, since I have no idea how long the other A/C parts were just open to the elements, It may cost more then the price I paid for the car to get it to work! Or it may just need to be taken apart and cleaned. Any thoughts?

[Grant]

Car & I are in NY. AC last checked in the fall, evaporator replaced & system recharged about 2 years ago so it should still be 100%. About 109k miles on the car and a lot of work in the last couple or three years (clutch, brakes, shocks, hatch rods) including new Michelins last year, so it wouldn't be a thousand dollar car. But if you're willing to spend, and buy it from NY this month...My arm could be twisted at the right price. get in, hit the key, she'll take you home wherever that is, reliably.

Heh, so you do want to sell the car?
My car had A/C but the previous owner took it out to reduce the strain on the engine I guess. It needs all the parts aside from the evaporator... which Rockauto seems to have. I have never had A/C in a car since it's not really needed in NY.

[Red]

Grant-
Well...The main reasnn I don't want to sell it, is because I have no idea what I'd replace it with! But OTOH right now the timing is right to sell it, since otherwise I have to move it, transfer the title, waste a batch of time and money (kaCHING) on paperwork...And again, if I knew what to replace it with I'd make life easy.

Blackstar-
If the system has been open, the first thing you want to do is literally stick a cork in it. Seal it up. Because when moisture from the air mixes with residual freon, it forms hydroflouric acid, which is what they use to ETCH GLASS. It is really nasty stuff that can eat out the metal parts in the AC system from the inside, real fast. And apparently spiders and bugs like to crawl into the pipes and make nests, which clog up everything else. Can an old system be perfectly good? Sure. It can also be a nightmare, there's no way to tell without rolling the dice.
I'd say, try to replace the missing part then have the system flushed and nitrogen purged, with dye check added. If it holds pressure for a couple of weeks after that, then go for evacuating it and putting freon back in. If there's a slow leak in the evaporator or condensor, you'll find it that way. The evaporator can be a RFPITA because you really need to pull the casing off to eyeball it for leaks. Sniffers just don't work well enough to pick up leaks in there no matter how you try to access it.

jinx-
Yeah, that fan almost stopped me from buying the car, because when you set it on HIGH it is so damned loud and still ineffective. I think the problem there is not the fan, but the small twisty tubes they use to route the air to the vents. Nothing to be done about that, although my feet get much warmer faster now that the rear floor tubes aren't in the car.<G>

Which comes back to Grant's question...After 27 years I just want something a little QUIETER, smoother, a titch more room but I don't want an SUV or a Wallymobile. And these days..."sportwagons" are hard to find and there's not much out there that handles as sweetly.<G>

[BlackStar]

That is why I am just considering the option of just ripping it all out. I know for at least a year and half it was open to the elements. Prior to that, I have no idea, it could be completely stopped and fouled up. How can I clean out and purge the system? I know A/C repair is one of those black magic systems that is best left to a technican, but is their anything I could do at home?

[Red]

At home...well, I'd say to look at the various "flush kits" and see what they require. Basically the system can be flushed out with various products which will take out any residual moisture, oils, acids, etc. and then air-dried or vacuumed (suction, not vacuum cleaner). If the compressor is disconnected,and the receiver drier removed (which would plug up otherwise) there's no reason I know of why you couldn't do something totally uncondoned, like flush it out with detergent, water, and alcohol to remove the residual water, then blow it dry with compressed air and reseal it. The stuff in the receiver drier is designed to stay prous in freon and mineral oil, but absorb any water that reaches it, so I have no idea if it would plug up solid or what during anything else. I'd expect it to get insulted real fast.<G>

Looking down the road, I'd plug it and leave it rather than remove it all, in case the next owner ever wanted to do a restoration. You never know.

[BlackStar]

My car is a restoration project, that's why I am trying to learn how to get it to work. Maybe i'll uninstall the receiver dryer, and flush the system. I would consider taking the whole system out if a majority if the system is stopped up and useless. For all I know, it could have been open to the elements for over 5 years.