Best engine for daily driving and drifting with power.

[casket77]

Concerning best engines.... the one I recommend on page 2 is ONLY for use with a stock ECU. The machine work on the small end of the rod to accommodate the 20mm wrist pin weakens the rod some. This weakened state limits the rpm of the engine to the factory redline.....

How do I know this is safe... and within "spec" so to speak???? I have a close friend who had this set up for about 25k miles with no failures... he was @ 118whp on stock ECU and stock camshafts.... (compression was over 11 to 1, and the ign timing was retarded some to minimize ping)

I'm new to the 4age seen...is there any hope for the 3 rib motor?

[oldeskewltoy]

Concerning best engines.... the one I recommend on page 2 is ONLY for use with a stock ECU. The machine work on the small end of the rod to accommodate the 20mm wrist pin weakens the rod some. This weakened state limits the rpm of the engine to the factory redline.....

How do I know this is safe... and within "spec" so to speak???? I have a close friend who had this set up for about 25k miles with no failures... he was @ 118whp on stock ECU and stock camshafts.... (compression was over 11 to 1, and the ign timing was retarded some to minimize ping)

I'm new to the 4age seen...is there any hope for the 3 rib motor?

Nothing wrong with 3 rib.... block is a bit less stout. For stock or mild engine they are fine.

I'm using 3rib crank, rods and pistons (albeit they are Singapore high comp) and I'm planting Blacktop power- 145whp. In my engine I'm running after market management, and a bit more cam.

[Zenki85]

Concerning best engines.... the one I recommend on page 2 is ONLY for use with a stock ECU. The machine work on the small end of the rod to accommodate the 20mm wrist pin weakens the rod some. This weakened state limits the rpm of the engine to the factory redline.....

How do I know this is safe... and within "spec" so to speak???? I have a close friend who had this set up for about 25k miles with no failures... he was @ 118whp on stock ECU and stock camshafts.... (compression was over 11 to 1, and the ign timing was retarded some to minimize ping)

I'm new to the 4age seen...is there any hope for the 3 rib motor?

Nothing wrong with 3 rib.... block is a bit less stout. For stock or mild engine they are fine.

I'm using 3rib crank, rods and pistons (albeit they are Singapore high comp) and I'm planting Blacktop power- 145whp. In my engine I'm running after market management, and a bit more cam.

But you are running 7rib? Are you running itbs with your 16? How was tuning if you had to anyways

[E_Money]

is there any quick way i can tell if my GT-S has a 7 rib or 3 rib and if it has ITIBS or TIVIS?

[Zenki85]

Would you have a pic of your motor? ^

[Flipp]

oldeskewltoy, just shot you another pm

[oldeskewltoy]

Would you have a pic of your motor? ^

[gotzoom?]

I know I'm jumping back into the party late, but I do not agree that the gear spacing sucks on the T50. For a stock or lightly modified 4AG, the gearing is quite good for normal road driving or on track, in my opinion. There are times that I wish I had a longer 2nd gear, but I have experienced running out of second gear in many cars in that same situation (turn 5a on Thunderhill, for example.) On the road, I typically shift between 4 and 5k and I don't feel like I'm lugging the engine at all in any gear if I do that. On track, you typically shift above 7k, and you're right in the powerband for the next gear, has been my experience. All of this is based on running a 4.3 rearend gear (stock ratio) with 55 or 60 series tires on 14" rims. If you shift smoothly and use a quality gear oil, I'm also not convinced that the T50 is poorly made. It definitely wasn't made to handle 250lb/ft of torque or to be clutch kicked constantly, but for normal road driving and grip track stuff, I think it is perfectly fine.

[Zenki85]

Would you have a pic of your motor? ^

Nice I saw it on the thread too! Sorry lol. Might be out of topic. You working with 4ags for awhile and having been building, I know there 4.5ag like the one in your dyno thread. I guess my main question is are you more with 16vs over 20vs? As in liking the 16v more with performance reliability when built. Or are you just working on 16vs to know it more and more?

And the 4.5ag is it just best of both worlds? Would you still use 16v ecu or can you?

[oldeskewltoy]

I guess my main question is are you more with 16vs over 20vs? As in liking the 16v more with performance reliability when built. Or are you just working on 16vs to know it more and more?

I work with 16V so far because the engine shop near me has a reputation as one of the BEST 4AGE shops in the nation - Loynings Engine Service - they are literally about 3 miles from my home. They build race engines... and they currently are capable of planting in excess of 260hp under 10k rpm with 1587cc(stock 4AGE engine volume) on a 16V head

WARNING: My Humble Opinion.... I've not yet seen what I would deem a "proper" 20V built head as of yet... modestly that includes the 20V 83x83 build going on now. Again this is MY humble opinion, but from what I've seen out there, both 20V intake ports suffer because of improper shape do to original packaging restraints. I can't explain it fully... but to cut to the chase... the manifold angle and the port angle are NOT conducive to optimum performance.

And the 4.5ag is it just best of both worlds? Would you still use 16v ecu or can you?

First off... I frequently forget all the unofficial names all the variants have. I had to look up the 4.5AGE is actually 83mm O/S pistons with stock stroke. I would NOT recommend this... to close to block maximums... stock bore is 81mm, my engine is 81.5mm, so not really a 4.5AGE. Mine is just an overbore 4AGE... instead of 1587cc, mine is 1606.

[Zenki85]

I work with 16V so far because the engine shop near me has a reputation as one of the BEST 4AGE shops in the nation - Loynings Engine Service - they are literally about 3 miles from my home. They build race engines... and they currently are capable of planting in excess of 260hp under 10k rpm with 1587cc(stock 4AGE engine volume) on a 16V head

Oh damn! Is a hasslegren engine or what. A 16v with that much can finally do a reverse entry drift! Lol jk

WARNING: My Humble Opinion.... I've not yet seen what I would deem a "proper" 20V built head as of yet... modestly that includes the 20V 83x83 build going on now. Again this is MY humble opinion, but from what I've seen out there, both 20V intake ports suffer because of improper shape do to original packaging restraints. I can't explain it fully... but to cut to the chase... the manifold angle and the port angle are NOT conducive

First off... I frequently forget all the unofficial names all the variants have. I had to look up the 4.5AGE is actually 83mm O/S pistons with stock stroke. I would NOT recommend this... to close to block maximums... stock bore is 81mm, my engine is 81.5mm, so not really a 4.5AGE. Mine is just an overbore 4AGE... instead of 1587cc, mine is 1606.

Yeah my apologies. That's what I meant. Have you put itbs on it or carbed any of your 4ages? And if so how was it generally?
Thank you by the way for all the input!

[furfurmugen]

f20 swap enough said!!

[gotzoom?]

OST, I read somewhere (can't remember where) that Ferrari gave up on the 5 valve design due to the amount of detrimental turbulance created by the middle intake port being longer than the left and right ports. That might be a good place to start some research if you're interested. Yamaha stuck with the design for a long time, so they clearly saw something there.

[YoShImUrA]

Interesting thread subscribed and...

I just searched it up only found the thread for the group buy from old club.
But wow 70mph at 3700 with 4.7? Oh mannnn. How much did it cost if you don't mind me asking

I was selling them for $350.00 w/ free shipping to 48-states USA. Another member had them listed for like $430 CAN. I should be doing another group buy soon, just need to get back from Patrick at MFactory. Also looking at having him build some new parts for the AE86 community this year as well. I took a Youtube video of the gear run. Search like "MFactory 5th gear dry run" and it should come up. It's the t!ts.

As I told you before, really sad I missed the first batch but looking forward to the next one!

[Zenki85]

Vroom vroom i think I'm leaning on a really reliable redtop since my bluetop is bout too blow haha

[sickmade]

I'm in in the process of rebuilding my redtop. i have my friend from Norwalk Toyota looking up the pistons but cant seem to find them since i don't have a part # and don't know exactly the year and model this motor came off from. could you guys please help me out.

[Flipp]

I'm in in the process of rebuilding my redtop. i have my friend from Norwalk Toyota looking up the pistons but cant seem to find them since i don't have a part # and don't know exactly the year and model this motor came off from. could you guys please help me out.

just tell him to get pistons from a toytota corolla from the years 89-92...

.if he works at toyota, that would have been the first thing i looked at.

[sickmade]

that's exactly what i told him but he told me that it showed him different models for the corolla

[Deuce Cam]

Since you have a red top I'm assuming it's a 7 rib crank....do you need big port low compression pistons, or small port high compression pistons?

7 rib low comp pistons are from a '88-89 corolla gts, and high comp pistons are from a 90-91 corolla gts.

[oldeskewltoy]

I'm in in the process of rebuilding my redtop. i have my friend from Norwalk Toyota looking up the pistons but cant seem to find them since i don't have a part # and don't know exactly the year and model this motor came off from. could you guys please help me out.

Are you having the engine bored out from 81mm to 81.5mm?

Yes - 13103-16120 you need 4 - don't forget the rings 13013-16160

No - this is a bit trickier... there were 3 sizes for standard bore. How are YOUR cylinder bores? Have you, or a machinist checked?

13101-16120-01 STD, MARK 1
13101-16120-02 STD, MARK 2
13101-16120-03 STD, MARK 3

Rings for all 3 - 13011-16160

[sickmade]

Yes it is a 7 rib block small port high compression piston motor. the block is at the machine shop and just a call from them saying I'm gonna need piston that are 20 over.

[sickmade]

If i'm going 20 over witch stander bore do i need?
13101-16120-01 STD, MARK 1
13101-16120-02 STD, MARK 2
13101-16120-03 STD, MARK 3

[oldeskewltoy]

If i'm going 20 over witch stander bore do i need?
13101-16120-01 STD, MARK 1
13101-16120-02 STD, MARK 2
13101-16120-03 STD, MARK 3

.020" = .5mm

therefore you disregard standard bore and purchase the 81.5mm pistons and rings

[Esenpai]

If I may make a suggestion.
You could just go 16v 7AGE(4ag head and pistons and 7afe block,crank and conrods)
get that extra torque and still retain the performance makes a good daily since you have more power at the lower end and a good drift engine for same reason and it just simply bolts right up to the 4A head. fly wheel is a 4 bolt I believe instead of 6 so its a bit weaker there but unless you're pushing some really crazy power out of it it should hold up perfectly fine. and it should be just as reliable as any other 4age. with a freshly rebuilt one of those I'd say you cant go wrong for what you want.
and please if I said anything incorrect feel free to tell me so.
^__^

[YoShImUrA]

I hear that 7AGE doesn't have the throttle response of the 4AGE, which is, IMO, their most characteristic feature.

[sickmade]

Thanks guys for the help.... Specially to Mr. oldeskewltow.

Ok guys, would you guys choose forged pistons over oem Toyota pistons? I'm planing on a mild head build
tomei pon cams
Supertech stainless steel valve set
Supertech bronze valv guides
HKS valve springs
ARP head stud
ARP main stud
TRD head gasket

Let me know what you guys think..

[Esenpai]

I hear that 7AGE doesn't have the throttle response of the 4AGE, which is, IMO, their most characteristic feature.

well having more torque kind of = more of a responsive feel so I really don't see how you could have heard that.since torque is what put you back in the seat where horsepower makes you go faster once already moving. a 7age in all reality should pull on a 4age..... but I could be wrong.

[YoShImUrA]

I'm talking about immediacy to respond to inputs of the throttle, not to torque or hp figures. I'm talking about inertia.

A set of heavier internals will always act as an opposing force that will make the engine react less quickly than a lighter one. The comparison will be similar to when you reduce the weight of your flywheel with an aftermarket item. It doesn't add hp, but it gives you more "electrical" response to the throttle, if you will. It's all about being as precise and "connected" to the engine as possible, which to me, is what NA engines are all about.

It's all about personal taste, though, but Toyota clearly designed the 4AGE with throttle response in mind.

[oldeskewltoy]

Thanks guys for the help.... Specially to Mr. oldeskewltow.

yw....

Ok guys, would you guys choose forged pistons over oem Toyota pistons? I'm planing on a mild head build
tomei pon cams
Supertech stainless steel valve set
Supertech bronze valv guides
HKS valve springs
ARP head stud
ARP main stud
TRD head gasket

Let me know what you guys think..

A PROPER set of forged pistons will always be superior to the factory OEM (n/a 4AGE 16V). The problem has been getting a proper set. Most sets out there are some form of Formula Atlantic piston... which aren't worth it for your application. A proper set of forged slugs will set you back somewhere between $700 and $1000, OEM about $300. Toda has a set, and a member of the European AE86 site has designed a set that is also very good. His are made by JE Piston, but there are NOT their (JE Piston's) off the shelf piston.

BEFORE you buy the guides... have your current guides checked, if they are not bad... save yourself BIG money by NOT buying the guides. Also... you can save yourself more money by NOT buying the ARP head studs. The ARP head studs were designed for Formula Atlantic engines where the engine was part of the cars frame/structure, they are unnecessary in a mild, to even medium wild build. You might want ARP head studs for boost, or a truly wild build. ARP main studs are also not required. Now, there is an ARP you don't have listed I DO recommend, that would be ARP rod bolts.

[sickmade]

Sorry about that I did forget to put down the ARP rod bolts but they are on my list...

Ok so I been looking at JE pistons, CP pistons, Arias pistons I also seen Wiseco pistons but not to sure on them...
Do you guys recommend any of this forged pistons? Or should i say are any of this proper pistons for my aplicaton?