16v Itb swap

[yoshimitsuspeed]

Aside from the way your car looks, I think I figured out where the discrepancy is in your school of thought and others. You're running a manifold (obviously because its forced induction) to the throttle bodies. My write up, as well as most other people's school of thought for N/A applications is to run open throttles with no manifold. I think that since you're using the manifold you can still use the AFM and get a signal. Obviously when you run open throttles, there's no AFM to connect it to.

Ok but once again this is a completely different subject. The ST and BT both come stock with airboxes. The ST even runs an AFM. To say you can't run open stacks with an AFM ECU is completely different than saying you can't run ITBs with an AFM ECU.
I will completely agree that you cannot run open stacks with an AFM ECU. Nor can you strap an air filter on your single TB and expect to drive off.

[redroku87]

I'm not going to deny you know your stuff when it comes to EFI, while I might not like your execution, you do know what you are talking about.

But.

Here's the thing: With your knowledge base why even dally around with stock ECUs?

[ronny]

the point is.. the 20v ecu's are programed for Throttles, so yes it is OK to use it. because it is MADE for that engine and setup...

HOWEVER we are talking about the 16v here..

the 16v ECU will not work properly with ITBs even if you use the AFM.. IT CAN prob work (not efficiently ) if you have a manifold n everything, BUT in all HONESTY, why would you EVEN waste your time to do that kind of setup.. who would want to do that??

[yoshimitsuspeed]

Here's the thing: With your knowledge base why even dally around with stock ECUs?

At the time it was fast and easy.
I am currently working on an MS3 that will likely go into this car. It hasn't been an urgent hurry because the car runs so well as it is I have had a hard time motivating to finish up the MS3 and the bigger project of redoing all the wiring since it's a bit of a mess right now.

[yoshimitsuspeed]

the point is.. the 20v ecu's are programed for Throttles, so yes it is OK to use it. because it is MADE for that engine and setup...

You have not however explained why the ECU must be programmed differently for ITBs.
Do you have personal experience tuning with them compared to a single TB?
Or perhaps you are a physicist or engineer with an education focused on induction systems?

The NA ECU is not made for boost but if you are looking for modest gains and low boost it may still be the best bang for the buck option if it's already in your car. It has been proven to work and to work rather well.

the 16v ECU will not work properly with ITBs even if you use the AFM..

And you have proven this or can show this to be true how?

IT CAN prob work (not efficiently ) if you have a manifold n everything

What do you mean by manifold? You mean runners and a plenum just like the stock 20 valves have?

why would you EVEN waste your time to do that kind of setup.. who would want to do that??

That is not the question asked in this topic. I question most the things people choose to do to their cars.
Why would you throw 185s on 10 inch wheels and cock them at a 30 degree angle? Why would you mount a rear wing and a fart can on an otherwise stock Dodge Intrepid?
However if someone asks me if they can mount a wing on their Dodge Intrepid I'll say sure you can. I'll also tell them that I think it's one of the silliest things they could do but hey if they still want to do it then go for it.

[chohdog]

Here's the bottom line. You have no interest and are totally unfamiliar with AE86 culture. You don't get any of it. That's fine if you march to the beat of your own drummer. The problem with that is, you had to be told that we are ALL referring to running ITB's with no intake/manifold box. Every single person in this thread, and about 99% of people who read my original thread already know that when you're referring to putting ITB's on a 16v, we mean open throttle (no manifold). I don't think a single person wants to do the ITB conversion with the AFM.

[redroku87]

Here's the bottom line. You have no interest and are totally unfamiliar with AE86 culture. You don't get any of it. That's fine if you march to the beat of your own drummer. The problem with that is, you had to be told that we are ALL referring to running ITB's with no intake/manifold box. Every single person in this thread, and about 99% of people who read my original thread already know that when you're referring to putting ITB's on a 16v, we mean open throttle (no manifold). I don't think a single person wants to do the ITB conversion with the AFM.

And we have a winner.
Too bad there aren't like buttons in forums.

Just run a real EFI stand alone system, call it a day, be happy, drive a 4AGE, drink water change your socks, get deployed hooah Army strong.

[yoshimitsuspeed]

Here's the bottom line. You have no interest and are totally unfamiliar with AE86 culture. You don't get any of it. That's fine if you march to the beat of your own drummer. The problem with that is, you had to be told that we are ALL referring to running ITB's with no intake/manifold box. Every single person in this thread, and about 99% of people who read my original thread already know that when you're referring to putting ITB's on a 16v, we mean open throttle (no manifold). I don't think a single person wants to do the ITB conversion with the AFM.

First off we are on club4ag.com not AE86.com. There are members on here with 4AGs in AW11s, AE92s, Lotus 7s and a vast array of other cars.
I would say it's small minded to think that everyone else on here has the same goals or is trying to fit in to the same "culture" that you are familiar with. To say running ITBs is not possible because the majority of one group tends to do it one way is inaccurate and narrowminded.
If someone came on this forum and was actually interested in running ITBs they would walk away thinking that was not possible on the stock ECU because you and others have said exactly that. It's possible someone could ask that question or search previous threads and not care less if they were running open stacks or not. Wouldn't it be better to use accurate terminology and just say what is really possible and what is not?
Someone comes on and asks
Hey can I run ITBs on my 16V ECU?
Response
Yes you can but you cannot run open stacks on an AFM ECU and you might have issues tuning for the VE curve on a MAP ECU.

All of a sudden you have a true and accurate response that is technically right to the best of our collective knowledge instead of an untrue and inaccurate response based on a number of unspoken presumptions.

[mikeyee]

Here's the bottom line. You have no interest and are totally unfamiliar with AE86 culture. You don't get any of it. That's fine if you march to the beat of your own drummer. The problem with that is, you had to be told that we are ALL referring to running ITB's with no intake/manifold box. Every single person in this thread, and about 99% of people who read my original thread already know that when you're referring to putting ITB's on a 16v, we mean open throttle (no manifold). I don't think a single person wants to do the ITB conversion with the AFM.

this.

itbs plus manifold? gettoutaheerreee.

[redroku87]

Here's the bottom line. You have no interest and are totally unfamiliar with AE86 culture. You don't get any of it. That's fine if you march to the beat of your own drummer. The problem with that is, you had to be told that we are ALL referring to running ITB's with no intake/manifold box. Every single person in this thread, and about 99% of people who read my original thread already know that when you're referring to putting ITB's on a 16v, we mean open throttle (no manifold). I don't think a single person wants to do the ITB conversion with the AFM.

this.

itbs plus manifold? gettoutaheerreee.

You can do that?

[carbd7age]

Lemme weiefh in on this here buzsinesss. First of all I'm kinda pretty close to the back end of a bottle of jack Daniel@s and I little blurry trssdccfdjdk. But seiousk. Your guys are like shttt. Your guys are doing things are different from each other is cook I mean j have a 4AC co.outer all up insides a my 7AGE but it's cuz carbs JB there. But your has guy bribginbf club down. Fighting and bejbg crybabiws is bring club down like bad. Drama cry stuff like **** is the facebooks? My son Dude is my grown up manaaa. Cuz this was all technicall infomation and cool stuff but hen is personal and lame. So here squash the beef manghsz and post good info. Ronny knows his shits and your alms know your shits and everybody work gether do things move club forwerds

[yoshimitsuspeed]

Lemme weiefh in on this here buzsinesss. First of all I'm kinda pretty close to the back end of a bottle of jack Daniel@s and I little blurry trssdccfdjdk. But seiousk. Your guys are like shttt. Your guys are doing things are different from each other is cook I mean j have a 4AC co.outer all up insides a my 7AGE but it's cuz carbs JB there. But your has guy bribginbf club down. Fighting and bejbg crybabiws is bring club down like bad. Drama cry stuff like **** is the facebooks? My son Dude is my grown up manaaa. Cuz this was all technicall infomation and cool stuff but hen is personal and lame. So here squash the beef manghsz and post good info. Ronny knows his shits and your alms know your shits and everybody work gether do things move club forwerds

Lol. I'm just quoting this before you come back and delete it haha. After all it is one of the most intelligent posts in this thread.

[carbd7age]

Hey somebody had to bring some class to this thread.