Restoring AE86 w/ 4AGE 16v + HKS ITB + Haltech E6X

[jondee86]

Back in the day before cars were loaded down with electronics, controlling a car required
skill and constant attention from the driver....

On the steering wheel hub of this early Rolls Royce are three controls. The little black knob on
the right changes ignition advance, which must change with speed and load. The silver lever
on top adjusts the richness of the fuel mixture, and the black knob to the left is called the
engine governor. That holds the throttle open for starting or steady-state cruising. You can still
use the gas pedal, but the engine won’t return to idle if the governor is left engaged.

Driving tended to weed out people who were absent-minded, and distracted multitaskers.
They were either left stranded beside the road, or rolled over in the ditch.

This ^^^^ is one of the reasons I believe cruise control is dangerous, and I never use it even
when it is fitted to my car.

Cheers... jondee86

[jondee86]

Ah, so I should set my ign timings to 15deg adv for normal operation, and 10deg for idle?
I'll have to check up on the manual for if there's a setting for that. I don't think the ECU gets
ignition switch STA though. I wonder how it'll know when it's starting or not. Or perhaps that
doesn't even matter as maybe it uses coolant temp to calculate the ign timing? Probably need
to also play with the inj settings too and hope the idle-up device works as intended.

I don´t have the Haltech Manual here, but I am sure that it will walk you thru the initial
setup procedures for fuel and ignition and the various compensation tables available. The
ECU will most likely consider the engine to be "starting" when the rpm is below a certain value,
and "running" when above that value. There will be a table to add extra fuel for starting that
varies according to temperature. Ignition will probably automatically be set to some nominated
value during starting.

Cranking the engine with fuel disabled will make sure you have oil in all the right places before
the engine actually runs.

Cheers... jondee86

[aceforever]

This ^^^^ is one of the reasons I believe cruise control is dangerous, and I never use it even
when it is fitted to my car.

The systems nowadays aren't bad and lets your brake stop the cruise control features. I hardly use it though since it doesn't adjust to the pace of traffic.

[aceforever]

setup procedures for fuel and ignition and the various compensation tables available. The
ECU will most likely consider the engine to be "starting" when the rpm is below a certain value,
and "running" when above that value. There will be a table to add extra fuel for starting that
varies according to temperature. Ignition will probably automatically be set to some nominated
value during starting.

It's funny that it says specifically that if you're running a distributor, please read Appedix F on rotor phasing prior to setting the base timing to avoid ignition problems. I flip back to the end of the manual and Appendix F is missing.

Cranking the engine with fuel disabled will make sure you have oil in all the right places before the engine actually runs.

Cool, just keep an eye on the battery voltage right? Do I have to worry about burning the starter motor out?

[aceforever]

In progress:
Figure out what fuel map/ignition map to use. Understand what acceptable ranges for air fuel mixture for the 4age
Figure out what other ECU settings to make
Finalize fuel filter to fuel rail fittings with copper washers
Clean up cam covers and reinstall

Done:
Reinstall water pump/fan pulley and fan and connect up the fan belt
Lubricate the cams area with engine oil
Lubricate cylinders with transmission oil (an employee at an auto parts store recommended this)
Turn over the engine a few times by hand

[jondee86]

Do I have to worry about burning the starter motor out?

The starter motor is short-term rated, series wound, surface cooled DC motor. It is
designed to deliver high power for the relatively short time of cranking that it takes
to start a healthy engine. There is a danger of over-heating and damaging the starter
with continuous cranking, so if a car is having trouble starting, crank a couple of times
and then let the starter rest for 20 or 30 seconds before trying again.

For longer cranking sessions such as compression testing and getting oil up to the top
of a re-built engine, disable the ignition system and remove the spark plugs. This takes
most of the load off the starter and reduces the heating effects from high current draw.

Car batteries do not like being run dead flat... alarm system or interior light draining
current until only the clock works. After that happens a couple of times the battery
storage capacity will be seriously reduced, and it will only crank the engine a few times
before dying. So if the car is not running, maintain the battery by charging it when the
voltage drops below 12V. If you use it for cranking, put the battery on charge after
each session, but don´t worry if the voltage drops to 11V or even less... just quit when
you hear the cranking speed start to drop off.

Cheers... jondee86

[aceforever]

Thanks for the info. You mentioned that I should disable ignition. At some point I would need that to check the base timing using a timing light right?

[jondee86]

Disabling the ignition when doing a compression test is just something that I would
do to eliminate any chance of damaging the high tension side of the coil. Plucking
numbers out of the air, I would guess that it takes around 20,000 volts to fire the
plug in a modern engine, while the coil itself may be capable of generating 40-50,000
volts in an open-ended situation (no ground for the high tension side). This high voltage
will seek an outlet, and as many people using 20V coils to provide IGf signals only have
found, the spark will either find a ground, or eventually burn out internally.

As an alternative to disabling the ignition, you could ground the high tension lead from
the coil. That way there is no spark to contend with. For checking the ignition timing
just crank the engine with the plugs in as usual. Leave the injection disabled, as you
don´t want fuel in the cylinders at that point.

Cheers... jondee86

[aceforever]

Alrighty, I'm pretty close in getting tools for this. I ordered a compression tester and a timing light.

Still need to hook up the map sensor and FPR with a hose.

Read more of the haltech manual and it does say to check the injectors separately. And have a fuel pressure indicator. Not sure how to test them. Should I buy a fuel pressure gauge?

[jondee86]

Read more of the haltech manual and it does say to check the injectors separately. And have
a fuel pressure indicator. Not sure how to test them. Should I buy a fuel pressure gauge?

Did you ever identify those injectors and discover their Ohms and nominal flow rate ?
If they were dry stored they should not be gummed up, so I would think that it is safe to use
them without getting them cleaned or tested. Either they work or they don´t, and that will
become obvious pretty quickly.

Similarly, the factory FPR is generally trouble free, so while a fuel pressure gauge is helpful,
it is by no means essential. If needed for trouble shooting, it is easy enough to add one later on.

Cheers... jondee86

[aceforever]

The injectors are ~3 ohms. The ecu has options for 4A or 8A. Doing some simple math, I = V/R = 12/3 = 4A.

I remember the previous owner said they were 220cc or something like that? How do I check that?

I guess I could pull the rail out and trigger each of the injectors manually to test?

[jondee86]

The injectors are ~3 ohms. The ecu has options for 4A or 8A. Doing some simple math, I = V/R = 12/3 = 4A.

You may find that low Ohm injectors are referred to as "Peak and Hold" in the manual. But in
any event you will need to select 4A or P&H in the software.

I remember the previous owner said they were 220cc or something like that? How do I check that?

If they are around 220cc/min flow rating they will be fine. OEM injectors have a part number
stamped on the body, but if you don´t have a part number the only way to confirm the rating is
by having them flow tested by an injector re-build company. Trust the previous owner to have
known what he was doing when he bought them

I guess I could pull the rail out and trigger each of the injectors manually to test?

I suspect that the 43psi or so pressure in the fuel rail would be enough to push the injectors
out if you were to run the fuel pump with the rail off the head. Offhand I can´t think of any easy
way to test them ? If you have the ability to trigger them via the software, you could do that with
the ITB´s removed and your finger inside the intake port. If it gets wet with fuel the injector is
working. But I would just have a bit of faith, and take it that the injectors will work

Cheers... jondee86

[aceforever]

Haha alrighty. The injectors don't have any markings on it, so I'll just leave it be and hope for the best.

I've read the manual over and over and I think here are some of what I need to do.

Figure out the trigger offset (says I need to know TDC, I saw from some diagrams that crank pulley has a mark for TDC but I wonder if that's accurate at all)

I know I need to adjust the fuel and ign maps. The manual doesn't go into detail what a base safe fuel and ignition map are for the 4age, so I'll need to search online for some clues. I'm a total novice when it comes to any of this, so it's quite intimidating. What the manual does have is a lot of warnings about leaning out the engine and causing engine failures, lol.

[aceforever]

Can you not run the injectors by juryrigging the wires directly to the battery like what I did with the fuel pump? Or would this damage the injectors?

[jondee86]

Can you not run the injectors by juryrigging the wires directly to the battery ?

I believe you can. Just be aware that the injectors rely on fuel flow thru the injector for
cooling. This means that if fuel is not flowing thru the injectors, don´t leave the injector
turned ON for minutes. It is only necessary to briefly apply 12V to the injector for a second
or two to prove operation.

WARNING Check with the manual to see if any extra resistance is required for current
limiting when using low Ohm injectors. The factory AE86 setup uses a resistance box wired in
series. If you have the choice between 4A and 8A this probably indicates that the current
limiting is built-in to the Haltech ECU. However, due to possible variations in how the injectors
are wired, you must follow the Haltech recommendations when selecting between 4 and 8 Amps
for the injectors drivers.

Cheers... jondee86

[jondee86]

... the crank pulley has a mark for TDC but I wonder if that's accurate at all)

You will need to make a check of your cam timing, just to be sure that everything
is near enough to where it should be. This involves removing the top two timing belt
covers if they are fitted to the engine. Then....

- Rotate the engine in the forward (clockwise) direction until you have the #1 cylinder
at TDC on the compression stroke. You can establish this by undoing the #1 spark plug
and let it sit loosely in place without any threads engaged. Then, when the piston is
rising on the compression stroke, you will hear air escaping from under the plug.
- As the piston approaches the top of its stroke, look for the small notch on the rim
of the crank pulley... it should be approaching the zero mark on the scale embossed
on the outside of the lower timing belt cover.
- Stop rotating the engine when the notch reaches the zero mark.
- Using a flashlight, look down inside the lower timing belt cover. There should be a
dimple on the crank timing pulley that will be aligned with a mark on the oil pump cover.
- Remove the oil filler cap. If the engine has the OEM camshafts (unlikely) there will
be a dimple showing on top if the intake camshaft.
- Look at the camshaft pulleys. The OEM pulleys have a dimple on the rim, and these
should be aligned with the center of two parallel marks pressed into the steel OEM plate
behind the pulleys.

If you are able to confirm all (or most) of these checks, then you can rely on the crank
pulley for indicating TDC. There are other and more accurate ways of establishing TDC,
but you should not have to use those unless the simple checks reveal inconsistencies.
Remember that TDC occurs every 360 deg whereas each cylinder fires every 720 deg,
so for timing purposes you need to confirm that #1 is on the compression stroke and
not on the exhaust stroke. Get it wrong and you can waste a lot of time... don´t ask me
how I know that

Cheers... jondee86

[jondee86]

I know I need to adjust the fuel and ign maps. The manual doesn't go into detail what a base
safe fuel and ignition map are for the 4age, so I'll need to search online for some clues. I'm a
total novice when it comes to any of this, so it's quite intimidating. What the manual does
have is a lot of warnings about leaning out the engine and causing engine failures, lol.

Providing you are aware that running an engine on an aftermarket ECU is not simply a plug
and play undertaking, you will be fine. Yes, it is an intimidating process until you become
familiar with the controls and the basic operation of the ECU. It´s also a learning process
and as your understanding increases you will gain in confidence.

Hopefully, some searching will find you a base map and some information about trigger settings.
Otherwise, with some head scratching you should be able to figure them out with the help of the
manual. To begin with you only need to get some values in the zero TPS (idle) line on the maps
and 15 deg with 40% VE would probably get you started.

Cheers... jondee86

[aceforever]

Last night I left the hood up since I was using a battery conditioner on the battery while it's in the car. Was a little worried about the hood crashing down on the thing. Decided that it'll be alright and went to bed. Then I had a nightmare that I was driving the hachi and the hood opened up! Lol stressful.

[aceforever]

... the crank pulley has a mark for TDC but I wonder if that's accurate at all)

You will need to make a check of your cam timing, just to be sure that everything
is near enough to where it should be. This involves removing the top two timing belt
covers if they are fitted to the engine. Then....

- Rotate the engine in the forward (clockwise) direction until you have the #1 cylinder
at TDC on the compression stroke. You can establish this by undoing the #1 spark plug
and let it sit loosely in place without any threads engaged. Then, when the piston is
rising on the compression stroke, you will hear air escaping from under the plug.
- As the piston approaches the top of its stroke, look for the small notch on the rim
of the crank pulley... it should be approaching the zero mark on the scale embossed
on the outside of the lower timing belt cover.
- Stop rotating the engine when the notch reaches the zero mark.
- Using a flashlight, look down inside the lower timing belt cover. There should be a
dimple on the crank timing pulley that will be aligned with a mark on the oil pump cover.
- Remove the oil filler cap. If the engine has the OEM camshafts (unlikely) there will
be a dimple showing on top if the intake camshaft.
- Look at the camshaft pulleys. The OEM pulleys have a dimple on the rim, and these
should be aligned with the center of two parallel marks pressed into the steel OEM plate
behind the pulleys.

If you are able to confirm all (or most) of these checks, then you can rely on the crank
pulley for indicating TDC. There are other and more accurate ways of establishing TDC,
but you should not have to use those unless the simple checks reveal inconsistencies.
Remember that TDC occurs every 360 deg whereas each cylinder fires every 720 deg,
so for timing purposes you need to confirm that #1 is on the compression stroke and
not on the exhaust stroke. Get it wrong and you can waste a lot of time... don´t ask me
how I know that

Cheers... jondee86

Thanks for walking me through all of that. It sort of makes sense while reading but I'll understand more while I'm actually at the car.

Haha, and thanks for sharing your mistakes (wisdom) with me. I'm very grateful.

[aceforever]

I know I need to adjust the fuel and ign maps. The manual doesn't go into detail what a base
safe fuel and ignition map are for the 4age, so I'll need to search online for some clues. I'm a
total novice when it comes to any of this, so it's quite intimidating. What the manual does
have is a lot of warnings about leaning out the engine and causing engine failures, lol.

Providing you are aware that running an engine on an aftermarket ECU is not simply a plug
and play undertaking, you will be fine. Yes, it is an intimidating process until you become
familiar with the controls and the basic operation of the ECU. It´s also a learning process
and as your understanding increases you will gain in confidence.

Hopefully, some searching will find you a base map and some information about trigger settings.
Otherwise, with some head scratching you should be able to figure them out with the help of the
manual. To begin with you only need to get some values in the zero TPS (idle) line on the maps
and 15 deg with 40% VE would probably get you started.

Cheers... jondee86

I feel comfortable the more I read the manual. However what's a black box to me is the timing maps.

You input times in regards to load and rpm, but I'm unsure what exactly I need to monitor for a good tune other than the AFR or if the engine runs smoothly.

[jondee86]

This may or may not be helpful...
http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?cmd=print&id=3598

Fundamentally, all ECU fuel and ignition maps are somewhat similar. If we talk about
TPS vs RPM for the axes, then basically the amount of fuel required increases with load,
and to a lesser extent with RPM. If you tune in VE for simplicity, you can start off with
the zero TPS line at 40% and the 100% TPS line at 80% all the way from 0 to 8000 rpm.

Ignition advance directly varies with RPM and inversely with load (generalisation) so
the fist approximation is a little more difficult. But you can get started with 15 deg at
1000 rpm/zero load tapering to 5 deg at 1000rpm/100% load... use that from zero to
2000 rpm. Ramp the 15 deg smoothly up to 40 deg at 8000 rpm. Ramp the 5 deg up to
30 deg at 3500 rpm and then carry the 30 deg all the way over to 8000 rpm. Interpolate
all the columns from zero TPS to 100% TPS.

I´m just sucking numbers out of the air here, so I don´t know what that would look like
on a speadsheet, or even if it makes sense. But if you look at almost any TPS vs RPM
maps they should very loosely follow what I have described. Once you have the engine
idling, you can gently start raising the rpm and and observing where the engine point
moves on the map, and looking at your AFR´s. Stay on the rich side to start and try
and get the engine running smoothly.

Once you have the first couple of load lines making a bit of sense, you can look at getting
car out of the garage so that you can apply a bit of load. Tuning the whole map correctly
takes a lot of time and a lot of tweaking, unless you cut the process short by getting a
dyno tune.

Cheers... jondee86

[jondee86]

Here is a fuel base map. I don´t know what it is for, and that is not important.
You will see that the whole 100% load column is not far from 80% VE, and the whole
zero load column is not far from 50% VE. I found that 40% VE got me started on my
4AGE, although after fiddling I did end up around 45% VE.


And here is an ignition map... from an RX7 it says, but not important. You can see
how the ignition advance varies with load and rpm.



Unless you get lucky and someone can send you an actual E6X base map for a 4AGE, you
have to generate your own. It is not that difficult... you won´t blow your engine up
just trundling around at low speed while you are building your maps. It is the clowns that
load a base map and then go out beating on their cars with the wrong fuel and ignition
settings that get into trouble. Then it is the fault of the crap ECU they bought...

Cheers... jondee86

[aceforever]

Thanks for that archived forum link. It helped a bit with the trigger set up.

I'm not quite sure about what VE is. The haltech software uses injector time in ms instead. I found a post:

14 degrees of base timing, then just adjust fuel until afrs are good. Really depends on so many factors like injector size, manifold vaccum, load sensing etc. Just throw about 3ms of fuel at idle and it should start up at least.

Seems in line of what you're saying.

It seems like it's hard to get the right load at the right RPM to fill in the map without a dyno. I'm still not sure what outcomes I'm looking for other than AFR and engine sound when adjusting these timing maps.

I'm going to try to figure out where TDC is and then hopefully calibrate the base timing correctly today.

[aceforever]

I can verify that the camshaft might be original since it has that dimple that you were talking about at TDC. The cam gears also have dimples on them. The crank pulley also has a timing notch that lines up correctly with the marks on the plastic casing. So overall OEM stuff here. I wonder why the previous owner ran ITBs if cams are stock? Maybe for future upgrades? Do ITBs actually make less power than the stock manifold if everything else is the same?

I also tried to turn the engine over using the ignition switch and it doesn't work. I'll double check all the wiring to the starter motor. But there are no sounds other than relay switching on on the passenger firewall.

[aceforever]

Found continuity by connecting positive battery terminal and ground on body with negative terminal detached. Is this normal? Is this a short?

[aceforever]

Wait, do I need to press on the clutch to run the starter motor? I remember seeing some kind of switch near the clutch pedal when I was under there. (Have I mentioned I've never driven a manual car before? Haha) I'll try that out tomorrow. It's getting late here.

[jondee86]

Found continuity by connecting positive battery terminal and ground on body with
negative terminal detached. Is this normal? Is this a short?

Any circuit that is permanently connected to power will give the appearance of
a "short" when testing for continuity as you describe. Most likely it is the clock.
The memory backup connection for a radio (if fitted) will do the same.

Cheers... jondee86

[jondee86]

Do ITBs actually make less power than the stock manifold if everything else is the same?

Interesting question, and one on which everyone has an opinion. ITB´s have a much smaller volume
of air between the throttle plate and the inlet valves, and this provides for a sharper response when
the throttle is snapped open. On the downside, the shorter inlet runners and lack of a plenum are
said to reduce the power at lower rpm´s. Generally speaking, ITB´s do their best work at high rpm´s
where the larger total throttle area and shorter, more direct inlet path contribute to improved flow.

As I mentioned elsewhere, many, if not most ITB installations are oversized. Referring to the Jenvy
site you will see that for the 4AGE 38mm dia ITB´s would be all that is required, and would have better
control authority than the ST or BT ITB´s commonly used. Because of the higher flow capability of ITB´s,
modifications aimed at getting more air thru the engine are desirable... cams and a free-flowing
exhaust system will help here. At this point bumping up the compression will give good results.

As to your other question... cams and adjustable cam pulleys are higher cost items and readily able
to be sold. Either the previous owner did not get round to purchasing them, or they were removed
and replaced with the stock items.

Oh yeah... for what it is worth, I am using ST ITB´s on an internally stock smallport with cams, and
I have more lower rpm torque than stock. So the real answer to your first question is... YES !! If you
fit ITB´s to a stock engine without other supporting modifications, you will lose power. They need to
be fitted in conjunction with an aftermarket ECU to work effectively. After that, you can add power
with cams and other modifications... head work, compression, exhaust etc.

Cheers... jondee86

[jondee86]

I'm not quite sure about what VE is. The haltech software uses injector time in ms instead.

Volumetric Efficiency (VE) is the ratio of how much air the engine the engine uses compared
to how much it should theoretically take in based on the cylinder volume and RPM. Of course,
since the amount of fuel required is directly related to the amount of air consumed by the engine,
VE and fuel usage (injector open time in milliseconds), % VE and ms vary at the same rate.

VE is used by most modern ECU´s as it is easier to visualise than ms fueling. On my ECU I can
toggle between VE and ms, but if you don´t have a VE option, you will need to set up your fuel
map using ms values. None the less, the gradient of the maps will be the same as if it were
set up using VE. If you are still working on this when I get home, I can send you one of my
fuel maps converted to ms to give you an idea of what sort of values you should be using.

Cheers... jondee86

[aceforever]

Any circuit that is permanently connected to power will give the appearance of
a "short" when testing for continuity as you describe. Most likely it is the clock.
The memory backup connection for a radio (if fitted) will do the same.

Ah, I didn't know that the clock was constantly connected. That makes sense. I was looking into this more and apparently, you're suppose to hook up the multimeter in series on the negative side of the battery and check current.