Help Me Start My Build!!

[CjRager89]

First off, I'm a total noob, I'll admit it. I have always loved these cars, and always wanted one, and as of a few days ago I finally do! (Pics at the bottom, because everyone loves pics) Tid-bit of back story: I am currently in Okinawa, Japan and really wanted a car to bring back stateside with me. I budgeted myself 10k to buy a car whether it were a AE86, R32, 180sx, S13 was yet to be determined. I was just on the hunt looking for the right car for the right price. I ended up buying this car through a mutual friend for 7k along with a silvertop engine, bolt in cage, a spare set of rims & tires, and a few other odds and ends. Moral of the story, I now have 3k that I had planned to spend ona car so this has become build money. In about a week or so I am picking up the engine and taking to a shop down the road a ways, their specialty is theRB26. You can basically drop it off say "build this with $X" and they will get the best out of it for you. Like I said this is for the RB26's, for the 4age you need a parts list. For the next few years this is going to be my DD (have about 6 more months in Japan then then I'm off to the UK) but once I return to the states she will be my weekend toy that I can take to the track. This is where you guys come in.... I know for 100% sure I want to keep it N/A and get close to about 200hp (or maybe a tad more?) So far from what I have heard/read cams are always a great addition to help with the throttle response, and add hp. Was also thinking to put some itb's. I don't have to/want to spend 3k on the engine (obviously) as I would love to be able to get a set of coilovers (thinking these http://www.mcnsport.com/shop/part.php?car=15&category=Suspension&part=2688 front & rear), possibly trying to swap to the black interior, and maybe a body kit ( was looking at the Origin Stream http://www.origin-lab.com/main/products/aerokit/stream-line/stream-levin-ae86/) Pleaseee any help or ideas on any of this would be greatly appreciated!

And as promised, pic-chas!!!
(all these are from the past owner, as it has rained for 2 weeks straight here )

Currently sitting on bronze te37's




My retro recaro's


Engine bay is much cleaner, this is when he bought the car from the original owner in mainland Japan


With the extra set of wheels on her

[yoshimitsuspeed]

It will cost you many times that $3000 to get close to even 200 CHP with an NA 4A. That is approaching Formula Atlantic numbers and they have tens of thousands of dollars put into them.
They also make less HP than a stock 4AGE till about 4000 RPM. You need to spin them very fast to make any power and because of this you need to rebuild them much more often.
If you are set on NA 4A for any practical intents and purposes I would aim for about 150 WHP.
That should be reasonably fun in that car though.

[CjRager89]

i thought the silvertop was already close to 150hp?

[Clutch_Kick_Lou]

First things first, STs come with ITB's already. STs came with 150HP give or take but that's to the crank, to the wheels you're looking at maybe 125-130. A Cam'd 20v with Intake, Headers, Exhaust and a good tune is more than enough to have fun in a Corolla.

[carbd7age]

Track down a BEAMS engine and trans from an Altezza RS200. That's 210hp NA and parts should be readily available in Japan and UK.

[CjRager89]

First things first, STs come with ITB's already. STs came with 150HP give or take but that's to the crank, to the wheels you're looking at maybe 125-130. A Cam'd 20v with Intake, Headers, Exhaust and a good tune is more than enough to have fun in a Corolla.

Thanks for the info. I know i have an aftermarket exhaust and intake on the 16v that is currently in the car. So your saying all I would then need is cams and headers?

Track down a BEAMS engine and trans from an Altezza RS200. That's 210hp NA and parts should be readily available in Japan and UK.

And as for tracking down a rs200....I'm selling my altezza (with beams engine) tomorrow lol. I needed a car that would meet the 25 yr old rule in order to import it to the states without having to go through TONS of work/paperwork. So thats how I ended up with the AE86

and because everyone STILL loves pictures....Me having a run at our little "circuit" here in Okinawa in the tezza

[yoshimitsuspeed]

First things first, STs come with ITB's already. STs came with 150HP give or take but that's to the crank, to the wheels you're looking at maybe 125-130. A Cam'd 20v with Intake, Headers, Exhaust and a good tune is more than enough to have fun in a Corolla.

Thanks for the info. I know i have an aftermarket exhaust and intake on the 16v that is currently in the car. So your saying all I would then need is cams and headers?

He is saying (and I am loosely paraphrasing with influences of my own opinion) that the above mods will give you a pretty fun ride. They will not get you any where near your goal of 200 HP. They might get you in the 150ish WHP range and are about the practical limits of a 20V build. You can take it further but each HP will become exponentially more expensive to attain. It will also start to become much less streetable.

The ST does come with about 150 CHP but that's because it's already a tightly wound motor. Even by today’s standards 100HP/liter is respectable and this is from a motor almost 20 years old. It is much easier to see bigger gains from other motors because they are not tuned for high performance from the factory.
If you are dead set on 200 NA HP. I would seriously start looking at motors over 2 liters.
Of course the other option is boost

[LongGrain]

yea you're not going to see anywhere near 200hp from a 4ag without spending way more than what you have to spend on the motor (way more than what you spent on the whole car as well), and even then you'd need a bit of luck, and it wouldnt be streetable and would need frequent rebuilds.

if you want 200 wheel NA from a 4 cylinder, F20c or Beams 3s are going to be your best options, neither can be done for $3000 though.

if I were you I would spend what you need to in order to get your 20v in good shape and swapped into the car running solidly, then use whatever you have left over on other stuff. a 20v by itself should be enough for you.

[CjRager89]

Okay, so I guess I was just dreaming then lol
Also thinking adding something along these lines to the list. Probably not this exact kit, but I'll use it as a parts list to give to the guys.
http://www.spoolimports.com/spool-engine-rebuild-kits/4age-rebuild-kit

Any direction on the cams, headers etc. as far as decent brands and what not to get?

On a side note, went to change my wiper blades, apparently the passenger is screwed on?!?!? Is there a way to change this out to the quick clip ones?
Also looking to swap out speakers as I'm pretty sure these things are original. nice and crackly with almost any sound. Any links to some good DIYs would be much appreciated.

[XanManAE86]

Ae86 wiper arms have screw on type wipers from the factory. Toyota blades aren't very expensive and you can put inserts on them instead of completely replacing them. The speakers are fairly easy to replace when you pop the covers off, just a few screws and any universal speakers should fit without much difficulty.

[CjRager89]

Ae86 wiper arms have screw on type wipers from the factory. Toyota blades aren't very expensive and you can put inserts on them instead of completely replacing them.

Inserts?? Do you have a picture, link, p/n??
Is there a car(s) that I could just swap the blade assembly out on to get the quick-clip?

[CjRager89]

Asked a buddy about the engine list (hes the mutual friend I met this owner through, he has a built RB from the shop I'm taking my engine to) and kinda came up with a list. He said I should probably get whatever I can forged so its stronger and will last, and should try to get brands. But seeing as I'm new at all this... I am once again stuck, and not sure on the need of these things or price this list would put me at. So, once again I call upon you guys to help me. Any info on brands, actual needs of the parts and rough prices is greatly appreciated. Right now the list looks like this:
Camshafts
Cam Pulley
Connecting Rods
Pistons
Crankshaft
Crank Pulley
Velocity Stacks (not sure on the actual need or major gains from them, but I love the way they look)
Headers
Exhaust
Radiator (only brands I know are koyorad and mishimoto)
Radiator Fan
Oil Cooler
Oil Catch (again I just like the way it looks )
New Belts, Hoses/Lines, Gaskets, Seals etc. (just basic things)

[Clutch_Kick_Lou]

This build got expensive quick... You should really look into prices.

[CjRager89]

What do you recommend that I could do without? lol please do not be the guy who says "all of it"

[CjRager89]

This build got expensive quick... You should really look into prices.

You sir are incredibly correct...looks like build might be cams, headers, exhaust, velocity stacks..? seem more reasonable?

[allencr]

Find the excellent Moto-P log for his 20V Levin conversion. It must be somewhere out there on the WWW.
Read Billzilla & Phil Bradshaw & lot'sa old posts on all forums. Twice.
Stay away from 'asked a buddy'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Trouble with wipers already, then forget the build.

[yoshimitsuspeed]

What do you recommend that I could do without? lol please do not be the guy who says "all of it"

The stock internals are great. Toyota did a very good job when they designed the 4AGE. The only reason you would need to upgrade is if you wanted to spin it much faster than stock. Even then I'd probably just get the stock components peened, balanced and blueprinted.
The 20v has a header stock and you aren't going to find much that will get you notable gains over it.
If you got something like the Tomei Poncams then gears wouldn't be vital but would still allow you to tweak the power band a little.
Anything bigger or not advertised as drop in then you would deff want gears to dial it in.

[Mr.Fujiwara]

dude your levin is preeeeeety GLWB man i cant wait to see what you do

[CjRager89]

Trouble with wipers already, then forget the build.

...It's not that I cant take out 2 screws, theyre stripped and corroded as ****, pretty sure theyre from '84, so since I have to drill them out and replace them I figure I would replace them with something that would make it easier for me

@ yoshimitsuspeed - thanks for the info on the internals, good to know
@ Mr.Fujiwara - thanks, once I actually start to do anything to it I might start an actual build thread

[ronny]

ill add 1200 to your budget if you sell me ur TE37

[Mr.Fujiwara]

if you get the body kit sell me the oen levin stuff ;]

[CjRager89]

ill add 1200 to your budget if you sell me ur TE37

if you get the body kit sell me the oen levin stuff ;]

I'm all the way in Okinawa, that shipping would be ridiculous!

[CjRager89]

going tomorrow to pick up my engine and the rest of the goodies that came with the car lets get this show started

[CjRager89]

So the engine wasnt in as awesome as condition as I had hoped for. And I didnt realize the extent of the work needed for the swap from the 16v to 20v. According to the guys at the garage I was taking it to, it would cost just as much for them to rebuild it as it would be from them to possibly buy an already built 20v. And being the Nissan guys they are they were sure to throw in the option of putting in SR20 into it. Opinions??

[carbd7age]

Well that's over 200hp but turbo. You said you wanted to keep NA, but I don't see a lot of downside for the sr20det.

[yoshimitsuspeed]

So the engine wasnt in as awesome as condition as I had hoped for. And I didnt realize the extent of the work needed for the swap from the 16v to 20v. According to the guys at the garage I was taking it to, it would cost just as much for them to rebuild it as it would be from them to possibly buy an already built 20v. And being the Nissan guys they are they were sure to throw in the option of putting in SR20 into it. Opinions??

What do they mean by already built? Used and built up? Or fully rebuilt with some performance mods?
Any way you cut it, if you are paying someone else then anything over stock is going to get very expensive very fast. Even a quality rebuild to OEM specs will burn up most of your budget. If you find a rebuild for much less then it is probably a bargain rebuild service and you can't expect the performance or reliability out of it.

Personally I would stay all Toyota. You want something similar to a SR20 I would go 3SGTE.
I don't have a problem with Nissans. It's not impossible to consider owning one. I wouldn't put a Nissan motor in a Toyota unless there was a dang good reason for it and I can't think of one.

Personally to keep closer to the character of the car I would go turbo 4A. EIther the LP in it or the 20V. That would be a very fun ride but you said you were set on NA.

[CjRager89]

I was willing to go up to $4k if I had to but with the news, I might just keep it as it is. I go on leave next month, might just have them work on the 16v that is currently in the car. Who knows, options are still open, we'll see what they say as far as pricing for the SR20DE, SR20DET, and a 20V.
I did find a SR20DET online near me for $650, so thats not tooooo bad.

[richkid79]

I'm a noob to the AE86 too, but NOT to building cars or doing a swap or two. The ppl on this board are very good at giving advice and are willing to help in whatever way they can (unlike the douchebags on BMW boards). Anyhow, I purchased a 86 SR5 that has been hacked, molested, and then abandoned halfway through. Ive just gained interest in a CA18det swap. In terms of a complete swap, this seems straightforward with good HP numbers. And a ca18 swap is lighter and cheaper.I did ask the same questions you did but no one seemed to give much info on that particular swap. Good luck with your build

[yoshimitsuspeed]

I'm a noob to the AE86 too, but NOT to building cars or doing a swap or two. The ppl on this board are very good at giving advice and are willing to help in whatever way they canI did ask the same questions you did but no one seemed to give much info on that particular swap. Good luck with your build

This is going to be one of the most challenging parts about straying from the herd. I am all about taking your own path and doing something less common but you have to remember that there will be a lot less support there too.
Stay with swaps that are common on these boards and you will find a lot of people who can help you when things get tricky. This doesn't just apply to the build either. Silly things like your speed sensor doesn't work or acts up. Now you have to figure out if it's the Toyota parts or the Nissan parts or if they are just not compatible. Then you find that no one on either board wants to touch it with a ten foot stick because they only know part of the system.
On that note what do you do for tach, spedo, and any other sensors? Will driveshafts and motor mounts have easy solutions or will they need to be made custom one off?
If you are paying someone else to do this swap I do not believe there is any way it could be done for less than rebuilding and installing a 4AGE.
If you are doing it on your own I still expect it will be more time consuming and more expensive to work out all the kinks.

If you guys really want to be trailblazers one of you should buy the boxer from this build.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4428
If I owned an AE86 I might seriously consider that.
Otherwise I'd probably stick with a 4AG or look for one of the more common better documented swaps, preferably Toyota if it was me.
4AGE is very easy to get to 200 WHP if you go with boost.