Another header topic.

[povertymobile]

Hey everybody, getting ready to buy a new set of headers and I have some questions. First off, since I have a LHD ae86 is it true that I cant buy parts from japan meant for a RHD 86? Secondly if that is true what are the best options that I have? I am willing to spend money for a quality product. I am a little hesitant to buy the mirage brand. OBX and CX racing look okay, but they are mostly two piece and I cannot weld, and do not have a welder. http://www.ebay.com/itm/CXRacing-Racing-Performance-Header-For-85-87-Corolla-AE86-16V20V-4AGE-Motor-2Pcs-/290984770235?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43c00b3abb&vxp=mtr these are what I was leaning to, anyone have any experience with them?

My car is a daily driver, but since I live in MD I have it as historic and do not need to pass emissions so no worries there.

[Lowtekk]

Hey everybody, getting ready to buy a new set of headers and I have some questions. First off, since I have a LHD ae86 is it true that I cant buy parts from japan meant for a RHD 86? Secondly if that is true what are the best options that I have? I am willing to spend money for a quality product. I am a little hesitant to buy the mirage brand. OBX and CX racing look okay, but they are mostly two piece and I cannot weld, and do not have a welder. http://www.ebay.com/itm/CXRacing-Racing-Performance-Header-For-85-87-Corolla-AE86-16V20V-4AGE-Motor-2Pcs-/290984770235?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43c00b3abb&vxp=mtr these are what I was leaning to, anyone have any experience with them?

My car is a daily driver, but since I live in MD I have it as historic and do not need to pass emissions so no worries there.

The biggest difference between LHD and RHD cars from a header perspective is steering rack/shaft clearance. The Japanese market RHD headers don't have to worry about the steering shaft getting in the way, so they tend to run a safer path to clear everything else (like the floor, frame rail, etc). That said, some people have gotten RHD headers to work without issue. IIRC, someone got a Silkroad installed with a little grinding on their steering shaft u-joint. If you want to go with a RHD header, check out http://www.nengun.com/. They've got a couple of well known brands, but you'll have to wait on production/shipping.

"Mirage Power" is just the Ebay flavor of the week. The $150 price point is occupied by the same sh*tty header that gets a new name every couple of months. OBX is a hit-or-miss option, some people get lucky with a unit that fits. I've had both the "Tri-Y" and TRD copy OBX's in the last year and both are complete garbage. I actually managed to return the Tri-Y, and the TRD copy is coming off as soon as I can manage (leaks and scrapes floor). If you find one that works, then you're in the clear. Just a gamble is all.

I'll be trying the CX Racing one shortly. If you beat me to it, post up your results. If that doesn't work I'll try and find a second hand TRD and get the flange modified to fit the 20v in my car. At this point I just want a non-leaky header. Any performance gain is only a bonus. I just can't justify getting a small batch or one-off header for $1500 on a 27 year old Corolla! (jk I love this car... )

Most two piece headers bolt together. The CXracing uses a v-band clamp. No welding required on any off the shelf header I've ever heard of.

Good luck, and welcome to the worst department of aftermarket AE86 parts...

fake edit: I'm in NoVA if you ever find yourself at any of the local events.

[oldeskewltoy]

SOME of the AE86 header designs I've found over the years.... not all fit LHD

http://s79.photobucket.com/user/oldeske ... %20headers


I'm using a KBD on my engine... tough to find, but works well on stock 16V(112hp) upto medium builds(170hp) and is very durable

[MisterJerk]

Cx racing header.... check out the primaries. in other headers for 4age, TRD and 4-2-1 copies(pace setter) 1&4, 2&3 merge.

CX racing doesnt do it this way, i think they have 1&2, then 3&4...

im betting that toyota did more R&D to determine how the primaries merge, taking into account firing order, etc.
in other words, from my view, CXracing header is designed to look cool, rather than run well.

[ogdougynutty]

^ No their primaries are matched right 1 with 4 and 2 with 3. Just very awkward to follow just using a picture. (I just bought the CX racing one, giving it a test run seeing as not many have it)

[povertymobile]

Lowtekk- Thanks for the information. I read that the silk road header requires a manual steering rack to work correctly. The $1650 k1 option looks really nice but just like you said it is hard to justify spending that much as it is more than half the price of the car, I am still debating the possibility of getting it though. I will let you know for sure if I end up getting the CX and how it works out. I would def like to see your set up, its allways inspirational to see another 86, do you do meets typically?

Oldskewltoy - The KBD looks awesome! its too bad that they are so hard to find!

OGdougynutty - How is the fitment on the header? did you have any trouble with anything in the bay that needed to be removed?

[yoshimitsuspeed]

OST is the KBD the one you were telling me I should do a replica of?

[oldeskewltoy]

OST is the KBD the one you were telling me I should do a replica of?

yes... but instead of the homemade merges... use Burns, or other high quality merges...






specs... all O/D
Primaries - 38mm(1.5") x 406mm(16")
Secondaries - 45mm(1.8") x 406mm(16")
Collector - 66mm(2.6") x 102mm(4")
Adapter - 66mm-52mm x 255mm(10") the "stock" adapter allows the header to bolt to the stock cat... OR a custom adapter can be fitted if you choose to run 2.5" exhaust

[Lowtekk]

I would def like to see your set up, its allways inspirational to see another 86, do you do meets typically?

When the car is running (which is only sometimes!) it sees street duty, the occasional show, and some ham-fisted (amateur hour) summit point action.

[Jeonsah]

Unless your going to spend over $1000 on a header. It really isnt worth it. There are so many companies that make trash headers for our cars. Honestly, for the fitment... I would go with the stock unit or a trd one (used). I used to have an obx and I took it off for a stock unit. I am very very happy with the stock one!

[yoshimitsuspeed]

yes... but instead of the homemade merges... use Burns, or other high quality merges...

Lol I will use the highest quality parts anyone is willing to pay for. Unfortunately in my experience in the 4A community everyone wants Burns quality at CXracing prices.

[povertymobile]

Yoshimitsuspeed: I would be interested in having you make me a high quality burns style header... what prices would we be talking? I have no problem paying for quality, and frankly I would rather support a member of the community than dish out $1650 for the K1( which I am not even sure if it is still available).

At this point my stock header is completely rusted to my catalytic converter and it also has some insulation coming out of it and I suspect that it has a pretty big hole in it as well. I would love a TRD header but it is really hard to find even a used one. I guess my options are really just to buy a used one or start saving up for the big boy.

Does a 20valve header mount up?

[oldeskewltoy]

yoshi.... I told you.... The KBD style with Burns merges... plan a run of 25(50?) units... I'll bet you can sell them for $700.... and make money doing it...

Your price point is half what the other guys cost AND still deliver a quality product.


Pre-sell the 25 units... do a bulk purchase of the merges to save you money... I can (might be able to) get you a KBD to work from....


Back in 2001-2002 I had KBD build 50... at that time we sold them for $325 painted, or $400 coated. After the initial run of 50... they built 10 more before KBD dropped headers all together in favor of making urethane body parts...... The first 50 were better then the last 10... but they were all FAR better then the TRD/OBX/Tsuedo 4-1 headers available at the same time.

KBD also made 2 AW11 headers... they were nearly identical... the only difference was pipe diameter... 38mm O/D for N/A, and 42mm for 4AGZE

upper right in view below... THINK that is for n/a but can't be sure from a photo

[yoshimitsuspeed]

Yoshimitsuspeed: I would be interested in having you make me a high quality burns style header... what prices would we be talking?

It definitely depends on a few variables.
I don't have a FR chassis to work with so getting an existing header to work off of would definitely be best. Quantity is also one of the biggest factors.

If we could do as OST suggested and get me a known good header to build a jig from and if we could get a group buy in the realm of 10 to 20 customers I could probably do a mild steel header in the realm of $400-$700. 304 I generally guess around twice that.
Some of that gap in cost would have to do with it just being a rough guess quote right now, the other part of that would definitely have to do with materials choice.

How about this, if we can get a couple more people to chime in here with serious interest I will start a thread devoted to trying to set this up and get a group buy going.

[yoshimitsuspeed]

KBD also made 2 AW11 headers... they were nearly identical... the only difference was pipe diameter... 38mm O/D for N/A, and 42mm for 4AGZE

Did you ever see any proof of them being better than stock?
I am mostly interested in making a header that will bolt up to the stock DP and or SV3powers exhaust systems to make as much interchangeability as possible.
I have had very little interest in diverging off the style of say the 20v header because I have never seen actual proof that anything beat it by any significant amount. The last thing I want to do is replicate a header that has no proof behind it as to whether it's better or worse than stock.
Now maybe some day if I can ever get this dyno up and running maybe I will actually be interested in pursuing some NA header R&D and tuning. Till then it would be a much bigger expenditure of time and money than I feel I would ever get back out of it.

[oldeskewltoy]

KBD also made 2 AW11 headers... they were nearly identical... the only difference was pipe diameter... 38mm O/D for N/A, and 42mm for 4AGZE

Did you ever see any proof of them being better than stock?

Nope... I've never seen a dyno comparing one header to another for the 4AGE in an AE86, or AE71... or in an AW11 for that matter. Drift Office was going to attempt it... but never got around to actually doing it.

I DO know... the KBD holds up very well... I've not heard of one breaking without some help. I know it is considerably lighter then the stock combination. I've had one on both my mild 4AGE (112whp) and my current 4AGE (145whp) without complaint.

Concerning performance gains... I've never heard any complaints.

I am mostly interested in making a header that will bolt up to the stock DP and or SV3powers exhaust systems to make as much interchangeability as possible.
I have had very little interest in diverging off the style of say the 20v header because I have never seen actual proof that anything beat it by any significant amount. The last thing I want to do is replicate a header that has no proof behind it as to whether it's better or worse than stock.
Now maybe some day if I can ever get this dyno up and running maybe I will actually be interested in pursuing some NA header R&D and tuning. Till then it would be a much bigger expenditure of time and money than I feel I would ever get back out of it.

The AW11 stuff... in my humble opinion.... the 20V silvertop manifold for a stock to mild AW11 build, with the blacktop manifold used for mild to moderate.

[povertymobile]

Dang, well chime in ppl! lets get this made!!!!

[yoshimitsuspeed]

I will be making a header based off the 20v mani soon.
Would it be possible to make a DP that would work with that mani and the FR layout?
If so would anyone be interested in this option?

[oldeskewltoy]

I will be making a header based off the 20v mani soon.
Would it be possible to make a DP that would work with that mani and the FR layout?
If so would anyone be interested in this option?

I believe it might.... problem is no one has tried.... The main difference (as I visualize it) would be at the flange(from 4 to 2) you would need to immediately roll both pipes a bit out/away to provide enough distance to not overheat the starter. I don't think it would be a huge deal.... but you would need an AE86 with a 4AGE fitted to find out for sure.....

[yoshimitsuspeed]

I will be making a header based off the 20v mani soon.
Would it be possible to make a DP that would work with that mani and the FR layout?
If so would anyone be interested in this option?

I believe it might.... problem is no one has tried.... The main difference (as I visualize it) would be at the flange(from 4 to 2) you would need to immediately roll both pipes a bit out/away to provide enough distance to not overheat the starter. I don't think it would be a huge deal.... but you would need an AE86 with a 4AGE fitted to find out for sure.....

That could prove troublesome where I live but it may be possible to work around this handicap using pictures, measurements and or a FR header to lay out the path of the downpipe.

Would it be worth trying to match up to a stock flange and location so it would mate up to a stock exhaust? In which case I could just get a stock header and DP to base the routing off of.

[oldeskewltoy]

I will be making a header based off the 20v mani soon.
Would it be possible to make a DP that would work with that mani and the FR layout?
If so would anyone be interested in this option?

I believe it might.... problem is no one has tried.... The main difference (as I visualize it) would be at the flange(from 4 to 2) you would need to immediately roll both pipes a bit out/away to provide enough distance to not overheat the starter. I don't think it would be a huge deal.... but you would need an AE86 with a 4AGE fitted to find out for sure.....

That could prove troublesome where I live but it may be possible to work around this handicap using pictures, measurements and or a FR header to lay out the path of the downpipe.

Would it be worth trying to match up to a stock flange and location so it would mate up to a stock exhaust? In which case I could just get a stock header and DP to base the routing off of.

yes... because almost all the performance aftermarket begins their catbacks at the back of the stock cat...... stock AE86 cat is same as MR2 cat EXCEPT for clocking of flanges.

The photos of the KBD show it with the adapter to get it to line up at the stock cats location