Hachi not starting? [FIXED]

[drifterkid86]

The COR is not the saqme as the usual relay. There are actually two coil windings on it, and two circuits that can turn it on and hold it on. One for starting the engine, when there is no airflow, and the other during normal run time. If the ECU sees no airflow it will cut power to the COR in the logic that "if the engine isn't sucking air, it isn't running, and we're either parked or crashed so I should shut the fuel pump real fast now to prevent a fire". A break in the air flow sense lines to the ECU can cause an intermittent fault on that.

You can pull the COR and bypass it, offhand I think it is terminals 1-2 that you jump to bypass it and supply power to the fuel pump all the time. But since you replaced the COR the odds are that isn't the problem.

A bad airflow sense signal can come from corroded or chafed wiring anywhere in between the MAF and the ECU, and that line runs from the air intake back through the firewall and can be tested out with a continuity or other check.

If the starter tests out good, and the wiring to the starter tests good, and the COR tests good, odds are the ECU isn't getting an airflow signal and it will shut down the fuel pump. It will NOT prevent the starter from spinning up, so if your starter is actually spinning up, there can also be other fuel problems too. (Bad fuel pressure, bad cold start injector or cold start injector timer, lots of stuff.)

I'd still want to know why your battery voltage dropped overnight. If your high voltage was measured with a "hot" battery freshly charged, that could explain it. Run the headlights for 3-5 minutes or let a freshly charged battery stand overnight to get rid of the "float charge" before measuring voltage on it, to get the real voltage.

I tested all that: starter spins fine, fuel pump is working. so ill try look at the wire from the AFM to the ECU again. Also tomorrow Ill try leaving the headlights running then start the car and get back to you with the results.

So are you having a cranking issue or a running issue? It's hard to tell from all the explanations. Don't forget that the starter is next to your feet so it could sound like its coming from that relay...

The car wont crank occasionally, but once it cranks it'll start up and run perfectly.
also I know the relay is clicking for sure because when I heard the clicking noise I put the relay against my ear as I turned the key to 'start' and I heard/felt the click

[drifterkid86]

Run the headlights for 3-5 minutes or let a freshly charged battery stand overnight to get rid of the "float charge" before measuring voltage on it, to get the real voltage.

I left the battery sitting overnight and then let the headlights run for 5 minutes; battery read 12.09 volts and then with the key in the 'ON' position with fan electric fan, radio and everything else running it read 11.66 volts and started up fine. Once running the battery read 14.50 volts.

I then tested the cable that runs to the starter from the battery (the wire that bolts to the starter) it read 12.09 volts. Then I read the volts from the clip on wire that comes from the harness to the starter and it read 0.03 volts I had no one with me to read the meter while I cranked the engine though. I also tested the battery again for a parasitic draw and it read -0.09 amps

[Red]

"I left the battery sitting overnight and then let the headlights run for 5 minutes;"
That should be either let it sit overnight OR turn the headlights on after charging, not both.

" battery read 12.09 volts"
And ssuming yo shut the headlights off that would be a very low battery. 12.6-12.7 is new, 11.7 is deda, anything below 12.1 is time to replace the battery or have it load tested and then probably replace it.

"and then with the key in the 'ON' position with fan electric fan, radio and everything else running it read 11.66 volts and started up fine."
If it started at 11.6 you've got a good starter and wiring, or a bad meter. 11.6 is a dead battery.

" Once running the battery read 14.50 volts." 14.5 is a bad regulator in the alternator, or a bad meter. Alternators are pretty much never supposed to go above 14.3-14.4, but meters have been known to lie about that last digit. Might as well have it checked out to be sure.

"I then tested the cable that runs to the starter from the battery (the wire that bolts to the starter) it read 12.09 volts." If you were getting 12.09 volts to the starter motor itself, that's not enough. If the cable and connections look good, that's confirming a weak battery. If the cable strands are at all greenish or blackish and not shiny metal, it may be worth replacing the cable and replacing it with a properly tinned cable (which never rots out, but costs quite a bit more) instead. And go one size thicker at the same time.

" I also tested the battery again for a parasitic draw and it read -0.09 amps" That's too high. Could be an aftermarket alarm system, or parts of one, creating a problem. Or something else added in, or failing. The only way to pin that down is to pull fuses, put the ammeter inline to replace each fuse one at a time, and see which circuit is actually pulling the power.

[drifterkid86]

"I left the battery sitting overnight and then let the headlights run for 5 minutes;"
That should be either let it sit overnight OR turn the headlights on after charging, not both.

" battery read 12.09 volts"
And ssuming yo shut the headlights off that would be a very low battery. 12.6-12.7 is new, 11.7 is deda, anything below 12.1 is time to replace the battery or have it load tested and then probably replace it.

"and then with the key in the 'ON' position with fan electric fan, radio and everything else running it read 11.66 volts and started up fine."
If it started at 11.6 you've got a good starter and wiring, or a bad meter. 11.6 is a dead battery.

" Once running the battery read 14.50 volts." 14.5 is a bad regulator in the alternator, or a bad meter. Alternators are pretty much never supposed to go above 14.3-14.4, but meters have been known to lie about that last digit. Might as well have it checked out to be sure.

"I then tested the cable that runs to the starter from the battery (the wire that bolts to the starter) it read 12.09 volts." If you were getting 12.09 volts to the starter motor itself, that's not enough. If the cable and connections look good, that's confirming a weak battery. If the cable strands are at all greenish or blackish and not shiny metal, it may be worth replacing the cable and replacing it with a properly tinned cable (which never rots out, but costs quite a bit more) instead. And go one size thicker at the same time.

" I also tested the battery again for a parasitic draw and it read -0.09 amps" That's too high. Could be an aftermarket alarm system, or parts of one, creating a problem. Or something else added in, or failing. The only way to pin that down is to pull fuses, put the ammeter inline to replace each fuse one at a time, and see which circuit is actually pulling the power.

sorry been away for a while had no internet, anyway.

"12.1 is time to replace the battery or have it load tested and then probably replace it."
I had it load tested and charged at napa's and they said the battery was fine.

"If it started at 11.6 you've got a good starter and wiring, or a bad meter. 11.6 is a dead battery."
The meter is brand new less than a month old, I do have an optima red top battery if that makes any difference.

"14.5 is a bad regulator in the alternator, or a bad meter. Alternators are pretty much never supposed to go above 14.3-14.4, but meters have been known to lie about that last digit. Might as well have it checked out to be sure."
Im gonna go get the alternator tested again sometime this week after work, because its reading 14.6 sometimes and 14.4 other times.

"If you were getting 12.09 volts to the starter motor itself, that's not enough. If the cable and connections look good, that's confirming a weak battery. If the cable strands are at all greenish or blackish and not shiny metal, it may be worth replacing the cable and replacing it with a properly tinned cable (which never rots out, but costs quite a bit more) instead. And go one size thicker at the same time."
How much volts should be going to the starter motor itself? I tested it while not cranking. The cable is kind of shiny but mostly dull a little black in some areas but I dont know what it looks like under the insulation.

"That's too high. Could be an aftermarket alarm system, or parts of one, creating a problem. Or something else added in, or failing. The only way to pin that down is to pull fuses, put the ammeter inline to replace each fuse one at a time, and see which circuit is actually pulling the power."
Im gonna start pulling fuses now and see which system is drawing the power, I dont know who installed my alarm but I know the original alarm was a remote start alarm, but i had a shop take that out and install a standard 2 way paging alarm but the alarm randomly stopped working a few months ago so im gonna check that wiring again.

[Red]

Optima: No big difference.

"How much volts should be going to the starter motor itself? I tested it while not cranking. "
While not cranking, it should show virtually identical to battery voltage as measured across the battery posts. Black or green at the cable ends usually means the cbale is punked out. Any voltage drop in the cable (assuming the ends/lugs are clean and tight) means it is punked out.
That can be prevented by using fully tinned cable--but that costs money.

Alarms and alarm shops...let me put it this way. Most of them hire techs cheap, pay 'em by the job not the hour, and the techs try to save money by twisting wires then taping them, which is absolutely the worst possible way to make a connection unless you are on a starship plunging out of orbit and really really really just need to splice that wire right now and just have it work ONCE to save the planet. If you find even one, just one, "twist-n-tape" connection, settle in for some rewiring. You'll never regret it.

Maybe I can get my Congressman to make it a federal felony offense to use or sell electrical tape without a license...<G>...

[Jeonsah]

Theres a lot of posts on this thread. Did you get the car running? If you didnt, I will take my time to read through this thread and help you get your car running. LMK

vic

[Red]

Sometimes you can't let these cars hear about what other cars are getting away with.

I must have hit the key four ties today only to hear a nice firm CHUNK! from the starter, indicating the solenoid had thrown it--but the starter motor wasn't getting powered up. Scratched my head, hit it one more time and of course it fired up right away. Clean out, rebuild, replace...I may just opt for "takee fixee" someplace because I hate working in this heat.

And then of course once it started, it ran rough until it woke up. Been running fine, humming like a clock, just had a frog in its throat because it went back to humming fine after a few minutes of pulling rpms. But I know mysteries don't heal themselves...always something to keep an eye on.

[allencr]

...only to hear a nice firm CHUNK! from the starter,

FINALLY!!! Out of dozens of replies about replacing/renewing/filing solenoid contacts in dozens of F'ing 'starter don't start' posts, your symptom is the ONLY ONE for which that fix applies.
Thanks Red, Good job.

[drifterkid86]

Optima: No big difference.

"How much volts should be going to the starter motor itself? I tested it while not cranking. "
While not cranking, it should show virtually identical to battery voltage as measured across the battery posts. Black or green at the cable ends usually means the cbale is punked out. Any voltage drop in the cable (assuming the ends/lugs are clean and tight) means it is punked out.
That can be prevented by using fully tinned cable--but that costs money.

Alarms and alarm shops...let me put it this way. Most of them hire techs cheap, pay 'em by the job not the hour, and the techs try to save money by twisting wires then taping them, which is absolutely the worst possible way to make a connection unless you are on a starship plunging out of orbit and really really really just need to splice that wire right now and just have it work ONCE to save the planet. If you find even one, just one, "twist-n-tape" connection, settle in for some rewiring. You'll never regret it.

Maybe I can get my Congressman to make it a federal felony offense to use or sell electrical tape without a license...<G>...

Got the alternator tested, it passes, so now im checking the alarm wiring and pulling fuses

Theres a lot of posts on this thread. Did you get the car running? If you didnt, I will take my time to read through this thread and help you get your car running. LMK

vic

Nope the problem is still here

[Red]

Alarms often have a "starter interrupt" function, and if there's old wiring, where that may or may not have been bypassed, that's a good way to have problems. Did you find any "twist-n-tape" connections? If you do, put aside the beer money to buy a good proper crimping tool, you'll never regret it.

[drifterkid86]

Alarms often have a "starter interrupt" function, and if there's old wiring, where that may or may not have been bypassed, that's a good way to have problems. Did you find any "twist-n-tape" connections? If you do, put aside the beer money to buy a good proper crimping tool, you'll never regret it.

So far I found no twist tape, I had to stop early due to rain. Though when I bought the car there was a push button start style alarm with a starter interrupt system, I didnt like it so I replaced the old alarm with a non push button start alarm though I don't think the shop rewired it I think they just tapped into the old wiring
so im heading out now to see which wires they tapped into and recycled from the old alarm -_-

Also I tested the wire that goes from the battery and bolts to the starter the battery read 12.5v and the wire read 12.5v.
Then I put the tester to the wire that plugs into the starter and when cranking it read 12.35

lastly when i attach my multimeter COM wire to the negative battery post and the multimeter's positive wire to the negative cable on reads 0.10 for a few seconds then drops to 0.00, you said something might be drawing power but doesnt this indicate that there is no draw? I have the meter set up like this per instruction manual for reading amperage

and when the headlights are on the dashlights go out? and my dimmer switch is turned all the way up