Help ID why car (4AC) wont start (Video included)

[Takaaaa]

Greetings,
So I just recently bought this project car and the past owner told me it was rod knock or bad fuel pump, but it's not running.
I'm planning on cleaning/changing old parts or even rebuilding it myself but fist want to try get it to run.
I dont know much about cars, so bought this to learn slowly along the way.

So it cranks really weak. even when I pump the gas a few times first, it doesnt help.
Since I'm mostly working alone, I havent yet tried ether in the carb.

But maybe you can tell me by the sound or video what I would need to replace to get it running.
Keep in mind, that I could just buy another 4ac but since I might rebuild it anyway, might as well keep this one, unless it's beyond rescue

[YOTAHOLIC808]

Rod knock or fuel pump huh...Is your battery dead??? try put a wrench on that crank and see if its hard as hell to turn, if not try a fresh battery, check spark and fuel.. If you wanna check if your fuel pump is working just undo the line that goes to the carb and see if gas pumps out when you crank... i would suggest tossing that stock carb and grabbing a weber, i have a extra 32/36 i could sell you it just needs a rebuild kit and new filter assembly. pm if interested

[Takaaaa]

Rod knock or fuel pump huh...Is your battery dead??? try put a wrench on that crank and see if its hard as hell to turn, if not try a fresh battery, check spark and fuel.. If you wanna check if your fuel pump is working just undo the line that goes to the carb and see if gas pumps out when you crank... i would suggest tossing that stock carb and grabbing a weber, i have a extra 32/36 i could sell you it just needs a rebuild kit and new filter assembly. pm if interested

Ahhh why didnt I think of the battery.. Ok Ill try jump it tom'w morning and see how it goes. Ill also try turn the crank.
Ok I will try all those things tom'w and post back.
Oh yes, I think I saw your ad on hawaii CL. I was thinking about upgrading the carb down the line, so ill PM you or reply to you CL ad.

thanks for the help

[rumsawatti]

^I think that guy is on to something, its probably just your battery.
Do you know how to test if the fuel pump is working? I mentioned on the other forum, I strongly recommend the weber lol
Buy a manual or download one online. It really is the best thing to have and will save you a lot of time and questions, especially later on if you plan on rebuilding and such.

[YOTAHOLIC808]

Yeah go on Amazon.com and buy a Haynes RWD Corolla book!

[Takaaaa]

So I only had time to test the battery and fuel pump. I put jumper cables and tried to crank it. It almost sounded like it would go, but doesnt. My fuel pump is defiantly pumping fuel.


I will try turn the crank when I get home from work.

[milchmann]

It the battery is dead then jumping it might not work. You can try holding the other car at 4-5k RPM and crank the corolla, but the easiest thing to do is just take the battery from what ever car you are using to jump it with an stick it in the corolla to see if it turns over.

[YOTAHOLIC808]

the only reason i mentioned turning the crank by hand is if the battery was good and struggling to crank like in the video... If the guy told you about a Rod Knock I would be concerned about the bottom end.. But if it Cranks over easily with a good batt. then i wouldnt bother turning it by hand lol

[Takaaaa]

It the battery is dead then jumping it might not work. You can try holding the other car at 4-5k RPM and crank the corolla, but the easiest thing to do is just take the battery from what ever car you are using to jump it with an stick it in the corolla to see if it turns over.

Ok ill try use the battery from the other car and see how it goes. Ill record another video when i try

[BKH808]

Are you the one selling that car on craiglist in Hawaii Kai? Btw did you get that car from Mililani?

[Takaaaa]

Are you the one selling that car on craiglist in Hawaii Kai? Btw did you get that car from Mililani?

I bought it from the guy who lives in Hawaii Kai couple days ago.

[YOTAHOLIC808]

Is this the dark grey one that had no front bumper? I swear i used to see this thing in Aikahi delivering pizza with Fiberglass Aero but everything else completely stock lol... Does it still have a fiberglass rear bumper???

[Takaaaa]

Is this the dark grey one that had no front bumper? I swear i used to see this thing in Aikahi delivering pizza with Fiberglass Aero but everything else completely stock lol... Does it still have a fiberglass rear bumper???

Wow! this car has been places! Mililani, Kailua, Hawaii Kai, and now Kahala. haha yup dark grey with no bumper and still have the fiberglass rear bumper (that's now, falling off). Idk if it had it back then, but it also has a Apexi exhaust. But everything else is stock.

[YOTAHOLIC808]

I have spare USDM bumpers with all brackets if u willing to work out some kind of trade!

[Takaaaa]

I have spare USDM bumpers with all brackets if u willing to work out some kind of trade!

I'm very comfortable working with fiberglass, so im going to repair it and make it fit better and might keep it. But if I change my mind, ill PM you first.

[Takaaaa]

So I swapped out my battery with one from a 2006 corolla and it started up pretty easy but idles very rough and always feels like its about to die. But I definitely think it has rod knock now that its running.
Here's a video. Let me know if it doesnt play, something isnt right with my photobucket
So idk if I should just try find another motor, or if I should just check the rods/bearings and think about replacing them, cleaning and replacing all the gasket while in at it.

at 00:19 it felt like it was going to die to I gave it some gas
and at 00:27 and 00:30 you can hear a loud banging coming from the back section of the car that idk what it is. I just guessed that it was the exhaust banging around from the engine shaking

[phanist]

Save up some money and swap in a 4age motor...
If you going rebuilt that 4ac....

I have an extra 4ag blue top
If you are interested...
Im in honolulu ...

[Takaaaa]

Save up some money and swap in a 4age motor...
If you going rebuilt that 4ac....

I have an extra 4ag blue top
If you are interested...
Im in honolulu ...

I'm actually thinking about this being a project that I will give to my wife when running good. But I'm keeping my eye out for a hatch to add to the family, so I'm actually interested. I'll PM you.

[YOTAHOLIC808]

yeah dont bother rebuilding that 4ac lol

[yoshimitsuspeed]

So I swapped out my battery with one from a 2006 corolla and it started up pretty easy but idles very rough and always feels like its about to die. But I definitely think it has rod knock now that its running.
Here's a video. Let me know if it doesnt play, something isnt right with my photobucket
So idk if I should just try find another motor, or if I should just check the rods/bearings and think about replacing them, cleaning and replacing all the gasket while in at it.

If you do decide to try to fix this motor you will want to do it right. If it has rod knock and you just throw in new bearings you will likely have the same problem. Even if it goes away it will probably come back in a few hundred to thousand miles.
If you don't have the tools, skils, time or combination of the above then you are best off pulling the motor and taking it to the machine shop. The more work you do the less you will have to pay.
Most of the work is not too hard. Plasticgauge, calipers and a mic set and telescopic bore gauge set will get you pretty far.
If it has rod knock though you are going to want to get the crank and that rod machined or find replacements.
If you rebuild this motor right it should have very good odds of making it another 150k to 250k miles. If you try to band aid it with new bearings you will be rolling the dice every time you get into it.

[Takaaaa]

So I swapped out my battery with one from a 2006 corolla and it started up pretty easy but idles very rough and always feels like its about to die. But I definitely think it has rod knock now that its running.
Here's a video. Let me know if it doesnt play, something isnt right with my photobucket
So idk if I should just try find another motor, or if I should just check the rods/bearings and think about replacing them, cleaning and replacing all the gasket while in at it.

If you do decide to try to fix this motor you will want to do it right. If it has rod knock and you just throw in new bearings you will likely have the same problem. Even if it goes away it will probably come back in a few hundred to thousand miles.
If you don't have the tools, skils, time or combination of the above then you are best off pulling the motor and taking it to the machine shop. The more work you do the less you will have to pay.
Most of the work is not too hard. Plasticgauge, calipers and a mic set and telescopic bore gauge set will get you pretty far.
If it has rod knock though you are going to want to get the crank and that rod machined or find replacements.
If you rebuild this motor right it should have very good odds of making it another 150k to 250k miles. If you try to band aid it with new bearings you will be rolling the dice every time you get into it.

Good point. I guess for now, ill just pull out the engine, do body work, and paint, while I do more research.

[phanist]

4ac not worth the rebuilt if u plan on keeping the car...

[milchmann]

I disagree with the guys saying not to rebuild this motor. The 4AC is an economy motor, and has no real power, but for a novice ... rebuilding a 4AC would be very educational, and it will not break the bank in the process.

I would not bother with that crank though. Get a used one that is in good shape and have that machined instead ... that thing has at least 2 spun bearings on it, and will be more money and trouble than it is worth. You probably want to check the harmonic balancer too. Oil starvation and/or the balancer being cracked or chipped are the two most common reasons for this on the 4AC/4AGE.

Good luck with what ever you choose to do.

[Takaaaa]

I disagree with the guys saying not to rebuild this motor. The 4AC is an economy motor, and has no real power, but for a novice ... rebuilding a 4AC would be very educational, and it will not break the bank in the process.

I would not bother with that crank though. Get a used one that is in good shape and have that machined instead ... that thing has at least 2 spun bearings on it, and will be more money and trouble than it is worth. You probably want to check the harmonic balancer too. Oil starvation and/or the balancer being cracked or chipped are the two most common reasons for this on the 4AC/4AGE.

Good luck with what ever you choose to do.

Yeah, that's one reason why I'm leaning more on rebuilding this engine, this is a project for the Wife and I to work on; to make mistakes and to learn. Once I finish this project, I'll look for another AE86 and do a 4age swap and build that with more knowledge and experience.

So IF its a couple spun bearings, then I would only have replace the crank with a used one from another 4ac, new bearings, and reuse my rods and pistons? (after getting machined, and other stuff)

[milchmann]

That is sort of the gist. You will want to get the crank cleaned, and the journals polished on any crank you use for a rebuild. You could have the crank balanced at the same time, but that is not strictly necessary. Most of the time you could actually just have the crank polished, but I can almost guarantee that the journals on the one in that motor are worn out of tolerance just from watching how bad the motor shakes ... it would appear that this thing spun the first bearing several thousand miles ago.

You will also need to check all of the parts on the motor. The first thing you want to look at really is the head, in worst case scenarios the piston can start hitting it. That is pretty unlikely on this motor, but the pistons and head are done if it happened, and you will spend more money on the motor than it is worth even considering the learning experience. Go find a complete 4AC that ran and turns over easily if this is the case.

You will also want to check the rod ends to make sure that they are with in acceptable tolerances before you decide if they are reusable (if it's down more than .020 then it's junk).

You will want to replace the piston rings, and all of the seals and gaskets. It is a good idea to replace all of the freeze plugs as well. While you have the motor out you should replace the oil pump and timing belt as well.

That is all just off the top of my head, there are definitely more things to consider. Don't be intimidated, it is all pretty simple once you get into it. The main thing to remember is to take your time, and always look up the correct way to disassemble and reassemble each part you are going to tackle immediately before you do it so nothing slips your mind the first time.

Good resources:

http://www.amazon.com/Engine-Builders-Handbook-Tom-Monroe/dp/1557882452/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1390811945&sr=8-1&keywords=hp+engine+builder

YouTube ... just look for videos by professional shops, not the amateur stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFXVIH85xw0 <- that is a pretty decent series, all be it for a very different engine.

[phanist]

Well sound like him and his wife really in for a corolla experience ... And look like he have a lot of free time too...

Tearing down a 4ac to gain experience. Is not a bad idea...

I not trying to sale anything to you.... I will not... Any more.... After posting

But if you want to gain experience.... Still the 4ac is not worth your time and money.... The time and money to gain that experience are more worth while more on a better engine... Which when accomplish u will be more satisfy with then the 4ac... Just dont want you to regret later...

Two ending to this i see..
First you will try do the rebuilt your self after collecting all parts and info u need... Start the job finish it , gain experience and be a bit satisfy and start looking for a better engine and do the same thing because you want more then what the 4ac can give you..

Second after tear down and trying u fall in a pit of darkness and back on here for help again...and or finally give up and turn it over to a professional to finish it.... And still not satisfy with the 4ac...

But dont take my word for it.... Do what u wishes to do..
i was wrong yesterday and i can very be wrong again today and tomorrow...


I understand every one else on here trying to help but..... He can't even tell if his car need a new battery or not.... Is it hard to think he can take on a job like rebuilt engine....

[Takaaaa]

That is sort of the gist. You will want to get the crank cleaned, and the journals polished on any crank you use for a rebuild. You could have the crank balanced at the same time, but that is not strictly necessary. Most of the time you could actually just have the crank polished, but I can almost guarantee that the journals on the one in that motor are worn out of tolerance just from watching how bad the motor shakes ... it would appear that this thing spun the first bearing several thousand miles ago.

You will also need to check all of the parts on the motor. The first thing you want to look at really is the head, in worst case scenarios the piston can start hitting it. That is pretty unlikely on this motor, but the pistons and head are done if it happened, and you will spend more money on the motor than it is worth even considering the learning experience. Go find a complete 4AC that ran and turns over easily if this is the case.

You will also want to check the rod ends to make sure that they are with in acceptable tolerances before you decide if they are reusable (if it's down more than .020 then it's junk).

You will want to replace the piston rings, and all of the seals and gaskets. It is a good idea to replace all of the freeze plugs as well. While you have the motor out you should replace the oil pump and timing belt as well.

That is all just off the top of my head, there are definitely more things to consider. Don't be intimidated, it is all pretty simple once you get into it. The main thing to remember is to take your time, and always look up the correct way to disassemble and reassemble each part you are going to tackle immediately before you do it so nothing slips your mind the first time.

Good resources:

http://www.amazon.com/Engine-Builders-Handbook-Tom-Monroe/dp/1557882452/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1390811945&sr=8-1&keywords=hp+engine+builder

YouTube ... just look for videos by professional shops, not the amateur stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFXVIH85xw0 <- that is a pretty decent series, all be it for a very different engine.

Ok I understand. Thanks for all the great advice. I will report back, once I pull the engine and see just how bad the damage is.

Well sound like him and his wife really in for a corolla experience ... And look like he have a lot of free time too...

Tearing down a 4ac to gain experience. Is not a bad idea...

I not trying to sale anything to you.... I will not... Any more.... After posting

But if you want to gain experience.... Still the 4ac is not worth your time and money.... The time and money to gain that experience are more worth while more on a better engine... Which when accomplish u will be more satisfy with then the 4ac... Just dont want you to regret later...

Two ending to this i see..
First you will try do the rebuilt your self after collecting all parts and info u need... Start the job finish it , gain experience and be a bit satisfy and start looking for a better engine and do the same thing because you want more then what the 4ac can give you..

Second after tear down and trying u fall in a pit of darkness and back on here for help again...and or finally give up and turn it over to a professional to finish it.... And still not satisfy with the 4ac...

But dont take my word for it.... Do what u wishes to do..
i was wrong yesterday and i can very be wrong again today and tomorrow...


I understand every one else on here trying to help but..... He can't even tell if his car need a new battery or not.... Is it hard to think he can take on a job like rebuilt engine....

I get where you're coming from, but I'm not new to the automotive scene. But I am completely new to rebuilding engines. I'm also still interested in you bluetop for my next project, so i'll PM you.
But for this project, I think the 4AC will be more than enough. I wont be drifting or racing with it. Just a reliable weekend car (so only driving it around 100miles a month).
But thanks for watching my back and my wallet. Hawaii people gotta stick together.