Looking to build: 4age vs. 5age vs. 7age

cincybranr
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Looking to build: 4age vs. 5age vs. 7age

Postby cincybranr » Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:58 am

Hey everyone,

2 things first:

1: I've done some searching here and have realized that a lot of the good information that has once graced us here on Club4ag has been lost.
Although this is still out there regarding 7ag vs. 5ag. http://club4ag.com/faq_and_tech_pages/5A&7A.htm

2: I've been in contact with Manon Racing Products (MRP) out of NZ to build me something amazing and just ship it to me. Based on what I want, they seem to suggest 7age.


PLEASE Provide structured feedback for each setup. If you have a motor to add e.g. 9ag etc just add it but I think it will help everyone if you can organize your thoughts/opinions/experiences in some way. Example:

4ag: Blahahah
5ag: Blah Blaha
7age: Blahahahh
Final thoughts: blahah here is why blah blah

You get the idea.

I want to put together a proper plan first. I know you all will really help guide me. I've been around the scene and this site since around 2004-2005. Anyways...

How will I use the car? How much am I willing to spend? What do I want or have to have?

1. Mostly a street car with an occasional AutoX day

2. Motor Budget: 10-12k-ish...

3. Lot's of opinions on this, but I already have a BT 20V head and I want to stick with it.
-I'm not necessarily after a specific HP # but somewhere in the 175-185 WHP would be ideal.
-I want it to rev smooth, beautiful, and sing insane ear magic. 8k to 9k would be ideal.
-MRP will be doing 20V Headwork (unless you know of better)
-Coil on plug is a YES.

To me, do it right, or not at all.

*I'm not an expert nor a 4age expert so I'm open to all advice and feedback that's good spirited.

Thanks Guys!

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totta crolla
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Re: Looking to build: 4age vs. 5age vs. 7age

Postby totta crolla » Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:00 am

BEAMS blacktop and leave room for a little improvement in the future.

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jondee86
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Re: Looking to build: 4age vs. 5age vs. 7age

Postby jondee86 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:44 pm

This has been for sale for a while....

https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-pa ... 3c78af-002

Cheers... jondee86
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.

jinx
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Re: Looking to build: 4age vs. 5age vs. 7age

Postby jinx » Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:31 am

i can see why that head is still for sale. No surprise there

there is no such thing as "do it right".... only what's 'right for you'

you admittedly know very little about an A-series, to commit so heavily to a money pit

make sure a noisy little buzzbox scooting around the street is what you actually want. Gets old quick
10-12k should get you a reliable 4/5/7ag, but still relatively weak performance
A $1000 200k mile 1UZ would totally destroy any na 4/5/7/9ag, and can sound sweet n quiet while at it
Likewise a GZE or a 200k mile bluetop with a T3 turbo hanging off the side.

perhaps you envision somehing like this ?
http://www.superstreetonline.com/featur ... tic-motor/

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jinx
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Re: Looking to build: 4age vs. 5age vs. 7age

Postby jinx » Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:34 am

oh, and for 'mostly street', ask youreself how much time you spend @8-9000 rpm, and is it wise building around that
For a far more practical user-friendly street torque curve, at a considerably lower cost....
I'd look to something like a stock-rod 7A version of oldeskewltoy white hatch 4A
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4352

Davegt27
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Re: Looking to build: 4age vs. 5age vs. 7age

Postby Davegt27 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:00 am

this is my 5AGZE (some call it a 5.5)

https://www.mr2oc.com/56-supercharger-t ... nning.html
Davegt27 Code One Racing

UNLIMITED 86
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Re: Looking to build: 4age vs. 5age vs. 7age

Postby UNLIMITED 86 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:32 pm

First, respect for wanting to build an A-series! Everyone wants to do a swap these days so as a self-proclaimed purist, this gives me hope!

What else do you have done to your car?
Does your state have smog laws?
Which grades of gasoline are sold in your area?
Make Club4AG Great Again!

Initial DeezNutz

cincybranr
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Location: Durham, NC

Re: Looking to build: 4age vs. 5age vs. 7age

Postby cincybranr » Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:02 pm

jinx wrote:oh, and for 'mostly street', ask youreself how much time you spend @8-9000 rpm, and is it wise building around that
For a far more practical user-friendly street torque curve, at a considerably lower cost....
I'd look to something like a stock-rod 7A version of oldeskewltoy white hatch 4A
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4352


Thanks for the comments and the honesty. It’s why I’m a member here and ask this community for real answers and thoughts. I know that any 4A N/A build with high aspirations is normally a money pit. Just my 35 year old 86 and trying to keep it running with a stock 4A can be a money pit at times.

But I dig the build you sent me and I’m leaning toward the 7A build.

cincybranr
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Posts: 75
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:28 pm
Location: Durham, NC

Re: Looking to build: 4age vs. 5age vs. 7age

Postby cincybranr » Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:05 pm

Davegt27 wrote:this is my 5AGZE (some call it a 5.5)

https://www.mr2oc.com/56-supercharger-t ... nning.html



How do you like it? How has it been running? What would you different (if anything)?

cincybranr
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Posts: 75
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:28 pm
Location: Durham, NC

Re: Looking to build: 4age vs. 5age vs. 7age

Postby cincybranr » Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:10 pm

UNLIMITED 86 wrote:First, respect for wanting to build an A-series! Everyone wants to do a swap these days so as a self-proclaimed purist, this gives me hope!

What else do you have done to your car?
Does your state have smog laws?
Which grades of gasoline are sold in your area?


Appreciate the kind words. I know there are some really good and relatively easy swaps now which can gain you big power for less money, but I think a 4ag, 5ag, 7ag keeps the character of the car; but it comes at a cost.

Most everything is suspension right now. Annex Coilovers (Shipped this week)
Kaaz LSD
Cusco 4 link

No Smog laws in my state.
We have up to 93 at most gas stations.

Ita Racer
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Re: Looking to build: 4age vs. 5age vs. 7age

Postby Ita Racer » Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:51 pm

I have that swap. 7AGE makes good power. I have this motor in my Corolla GTS race car I currently campaign the car in the SCCA We race at Sebring raceway.
I have many engine parts if you need. My motor has the Pistons like they use in a Formula Atlantic. If I can help help with part advice or motor tips. Please reach out
85 AE86 Race Car
91 Supra non turbo
96 Celica convertible
2006 4 Runner

Davegt27
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Re: Looking to build: 4age vs. 5age vs. 7age

Postby Davegt27 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:50 am

cincybranr wrote:
Davegt27 wrote:this is my 5AGZE (some call it a 5.5)

https://www.mr2oc.com/56-supercharger-t ... nning.html



How do you like it? How has it been running? What would you different (if anything)?


runs fine been running since 2011 and I got about 6K miles on the motor
its nothing to write home about my ITA CRX will do circles around my 5AGZE

but the 5AGZE is not done
1) the cams I spec-ed for the motor had to be returned, I bought some $$ TODA cams but never installed them
2) I have a $$ header but never installed it
3) no real tuning done (I am in the middle of a wide band install so I can get it to pass CO emissions)

so what would I have done differently
nothing it is what it is (I sort of lost motivation I guess--old age lol)
the only things that could have been done
1 the power is in the head
2 CNC ported head from LC engineering or oldeskewltoy done head or a 20V head
3 I picked up a 20V head but lost motivation
4 I have a piggy back (E-manage ultimate sitting in the corner half done)
5 sleeve the block to guard against the thinner cyl walls caused by the 83mm bore
6 custom intake manifold

that's all I can think of
I am pretty happy that I got the motor done I just need to finish this thing

Davegt27
Davegt27 Code One Racing

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oldeskewltoy
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Re: Looking to build: 4age vs. 5age vs. 7age

Postby oldeskewltoy » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:34 pm

4A and 7A have similar rod to stroke ratio... a 5AG is much worse. Based on that alone... you will have a very difficult time making a 5A make power above 8500 ish rpm. If your goal is 9000 rpm capable... stick with either 4A, or 7A

4A vs 7A, @ your budget level - the 7A wins every time. MRP has all the internals.

oiling... you don't need dry sump as your oiling needs don't require it. A set of Toda oil pump gears, and the MRP oil pan is all you'll need.

Personally... you can't beat a 34mm intake valve 16V head..... :ugeek:

Image
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

Building a great engine takes knowing the end... before you begin :ugeek:

Enjoy Life... its the only one you get!

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