Smog exemption???

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sirdeuce
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Smog exemption???

Postby sirdeuce » Mon May 06, 2019 5:37 pm

I know this is the fun talk section, and this is not a fun subject. Anybody have any good news on the readmittance of the rolling exemption or the "10%" exemption? The 10% thing was, as it was told to me from a BAR rep, when a certain year and earlier of all cars on the road dipped their numbers below 10%. I drove to San Diego a couple of weeks ago, from Atascadero, and I paid particular attention to the age of the cars on the road. I would have to say that cars 1995 and older are definitely under the 10% mark. It was kind of rare to see cars from the 1990s. I just want to see if any one has more than a rumour on the subject.
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aukword1
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Re: Smog exemption???

Postby aukword1 » Tue May 07, 2019 8:11 am

Never heard of the 10% exemption but I did find this article.

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/pre-198 ... alifornia/

At least if this new bill passes, the 83' ae86 will be smog exempt. I plan on getting the historic vehicle plates for my car towards the end of the year. That's also one way of being smog exempt in California but it does come with its limitations.

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Re: Smog exemption???

Postby UNLIMITED 86 » Tue May 07, 2019 5:20 pm

I highly doubt California will ever change the exempt status to include anything post-1975 and here's why:

In 1984, the Smog Check program began in California. Cars made in 1966 and later had to pass the idle test and visual inspection every 2 years.

Then, in 1998, the laws were changed, which granted exempt status for pre-1974 vehicles AND included a 30-year rolling chassis exemption.

1973 was the original "line-in-the-sand" because this is when the EPA announced new regulations requiring a warning systems to alert drivers to malfunctions or the need for maintenance on certain air pollution control systems. And just like that, the CEL becomes law (image how annoying a "Check Engine Buzzer" would be, which was an acceptable warning system alternative to the CEL but I digress). The only problem was that these new regulations didnt take effect until 1975 (and later vehicles).

In 1975, leaded fuel was the norm around the world except in North America where we had already made the switch to unleaded fuel. With the new regulations in place, it didn't take the EPA too long to realized how quickly leaded gasoline can degrade catalytic converter performance so, they actually forced all imported cars to have their CATs replaced before they were allowed to be sold in the states.

Which is why the "line-in-the-sand" was redrawn at pre-1976 and the 30-year rolling chassis exemption was repealed in 2006.

California used to have a legit problem with smog and these laws played big roles in helping to clear the air. I don't see this state turning its back on the environment to keep a small percentage of it's residents happy. Why would they? As requirements evolve and become more strict, it becomes more difficult to pass. Why not just go get that new EV or hybrid?

In the end, smog exemption doesn't mean you'll get pulled-over less or prevent you from getting a ref ticket. It really only saves you a few hundred bucks (or a few hours of work) every 2 years.
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sirdeuce
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Re: Smog exemption???

Postby sirdeuce » Tue May 07, 2019 7:11 pm

I'm not looking to get away with modding my car 'under the radar', I'm just looking forward to the day when I don't have to look for obsolete, used parts to keep my car on the road. As it stands, I have boxes of the typical failure items for my MR2. This year I had to keep my car benched due to a part Toyota no longer has in stock and the aftermarket no longer manufactures. I could fab up the piece I need with a couple of easily sourced items, No change in performance, It would in no way affect emissions and the 'emissions related equipment' would remain in it's stock location, but it's illegal to use parts that the C.A.R.B hasn't given the ok (E.O.) for. Yeah I talked to a Ref about it, seems if you can show that a part is no longer available you can get a Ref tag, but they don't just hand them out because it's difficult to find a part, you have to prove the parts is not available from any source. I'll keep all the emissions equipment working to the best of my abilities, but when an EGR can't be found anywhere, or the intake ducting rots away and nobody has a replacement...… Try to find a replacement carbon canister for a 1976 VW Beetle.
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sirdeuce
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Re: Smog exemption???

Postby sirdeuce » Tue May 07, 2019 7:18 pm

As far as EVs? I would like to have one, but when I commute 200 miles a day, not exaggerating that, sometimes more, and the only cars that have that type of range cost $100K, and the battery pack costs more to replace than a good build on my engine. I have a few reservations on them to say the least.
One shot, one kill.

UNLIMITED 86
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Re: Smog exemption???

Postby UNLIMITED 86 » Wed May 08, 2019 3:18 am

Unfortunately, you'd still get a ref ticket for removing the EGR even if you were smog exempt (and probably have to pay a hefty fined). The only difference is you would'nt have to worry about it to renew registration every other year but...

The BAR has a service that helps people with older cars locate replacement emission parts but I've never had to use it. I also believe the DMV will wave a vehicle's smog certification requirement for a given year if you've spent more than $500 in repairs and it still won't pass.

Parts like EGR valves aren't hard to source used and I'm almost 100% sure you could pick one up a new one from the zone. The intake tube is harder to find but if you use a U-bend with the stock airbox, they usually let that go. If not, I'm sure there are plenty of CARB approved intakes to choose from.

And charcoal canisters are only part of visual inspection so as long as you dont remove it, you're golden. And again, if you removed that same charcoal canister on a smog exempt VW Beetle and got caught, you're in the same exact boat and up the same creek as the other Beetle regardless of exemption status.
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Nick94tt
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Re: Smog exemption???

Postby Nick94tt » Wed May 08, 2019 7:54 am

I knew CA was on the ridiculous end of things, (never mind the new exhaust fines) but wow.

For comparison's sake - out here in Maryland you'll occasionally get a fix-it ticket for an exhaust. Change it, have a state trooper sign off...

Emissions are every 4yrs (I think, Supra is tagged historic). When it wasn't you could put on an aftermarket front bumper and drop the front tire pressure once at the station. (Or run a spare tire or two up front, lol) If your car wasn't able to make it onto the dyno without damage they would just cut you a 2-4 year exemption.

Not that I skated by for 15yrs or so in that fashion... :lol:

Never had anyone whip out a dB meter but I did daily a '67 Firebird with nothing other than long tube headers for a couple years. Only interactions I really had with the police was having them try to get me to do burnouts at lights. :mrgreen:

sirdeuce
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Re: Smog exemption???

Postby sirdeuce » Wed May 08, 2019 8:24 am

EGR, not talking about removal, talking about function. Used items will eventually run out. I have come across vehicles that aftermarket suppliers no longer have available.
$500 exemption is a one time thing, they won't allow it as an ongoing process.
U-bend and couplings on my app were denied, not stock equipment, modified. In this case even the BAR couldn't come up with an approved replacement.
Saturated canisters and canisters that are rusted through don't pass muster and if the internal check valves and filters/restrictors are bad the car will fail on function.
In the last few years, since the 'points' system started, I've been turned away from stations because my vehicles are "too old". My MR2 was denied testing for being "too low", it's stock height. No, they're not supposed to turn you away.

I've wasted a lot of time and money on things the program demands. I've been doing this a long time.
One shot, one kill.

sirdeuce
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Re: Smog exemption???

Postby sirdeuce » Wed May 08, 2019 9:01 am

As far as the loud exhaust goes here in Cali, They don't whip out a Db meter, they just say your exhaust is too loud and give you a Ref ticket. Funny thing about that is the exhaust is tested at idle and 2500rpm, when the exhaust is actually quiet. You get pulled over when you hammer the throttle, it's when your car/truck makes most of the noise. Just another poorly planned rule with poor execution and subjective enforcement. If a cop here wants to they can give a loudness ticket to a Tesla owner and that person has to go to the Ref and court. Hopefully there are no cops out there THAT stupid, but it's the way this thing can go down.
As for "modified exhaust", ANY exhaust installed at a muffler shop that uses aftermarket parts and fabbed 'in shop' is TECHNICALLY "modified" and in Cali CAN legally land you a hefty fine. Even though it is considered, and accepted as a 'repair' by definition, an exhaust that is not "factory" can legally be called "modified". It's the whole C.A.R.B. E.O. vs. California vehicle code. Code says NO modifications, but the E.O. says legal for road use. Mom says no, Dad says yes. Poor execution. It leaves the matter open to subjective enforcement. Yes I have received fix it tickets on CARB EOed items.
One shot, one kill.

Nick94tt
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Re: Smog exemption???

Postby Nick94tt » Wed May 08, 2019 8:46 pm

sirdeuce wrote:If a cop here wants to they can give a loudness ticket to a Tesla owner and that person has to go to the Ref and court. Hopefully there are no cops out there THAT stupid, but it's the way this thing can go down.


I've got a buddy that recieved a ticket because his view was "obstructed" by his factory spoiler. Guy in front of him had a factory wingless Supra. Was breaking his balls for months. :mrgreen:

Understand the frustration with the subjective application.

Major time sink, but if you've got access and ability you may be able to piece together/refurbish/cut and reweld odds and ends to come up with a functional replacement. Lot of finish work to make things look unmolested though.

Thin walled /pinhole rusted components might be workable with silver solder/brazing. Would still need to clean and paint, assuming they won't fail you for rustproofing bare metal.

I know some hotrod guys that occasionally braze joints in tube and pipe - typically exhaust applications. Would eliminate the "non-factory couplers" while being a viable workaround. Would open up the possibility of cutting the top off a dead charcoal canister and taking a crack at replacing filters and check valves with new/junkyard items, then brazing the top back on cleanly...

Considering Maserati built their "birdcage" similarly I've no doubt non-structural brazing would be fine - and much easier for those of us without decades of fab experience to put to use, lol.

Image

Serious PITA for something that should have a common sense solution though - especially when you're just trying to actually play by the rules...

aukword1
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Re: Smog exemption???

Postby aukword1 » Thu May 09, 2019 8:02 am

So regarding the CA exhaust laws, anything past the catalytic converter is okay under CA law to modify. That's coming from the owner of an exhaust shop. They get into big trouble if they modify anything between header and cat. Also, according to SEMA, the CA exhaust law introduced in January 2019 is in the process of repeal. https://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2019/13 ... sportation . If this passes, it will go back to fix-it tickets only. But yeah, cops can pretty much do whatever they want and issue you a ref ticket if they felt so inclined.

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Re: Smog exemption???

Postby UNLIMITED 86 » Thu May 09, 2019 4:15 pm

I believe the new exhaust law repeal was successful. Some of you have heard how loud my car is and you also know how many F#@%$ I give/gave.

And I've heard that CHP actually has/uses DB meters to cite people for loud exhaust but your city police/sherriff do not (yet).

A cops job is to protect and serve the law, not you. So they only have to 'think' something is wrong to give you a ticket. It's the judge who decides whether you're guilty or not, no the cops.

I think you're way overthinking this smog thing; stop asking for permission and just take it somewhere. Most places arent going to say anything about a black tube that connects stock components.

CARB cares about emissions (before the CAT) and could care less about sound levels. Everything aft of your cat is not smog equipment. This is where the VC comes into play with allowable sound levels. 2 different governing bodies covering 2 different issues.
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WTB: OEM Windshield, hatchback 3rd brake light, and a clean Kouki Trueno Front bumper (also willing to trade mine + cash/???)

UNLIMITED 86
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Re: Smog exemption???

Postby UNLIMITED 86 » Thu May 09, 2019 4:34 pm

I encourage everyone who is interested in this topic to read the actual laws for themselves. Understand what they actually say and how they say it. If youre a car enthusiast is California, this will only help you avoid paying unnecessary fines in the long run. Trust me, i bet ive paid more in fines than anyone else on this site.
IG: unltd_86

Parts for Sale: https://offerup.co/profile/ae86

WTB: OEM Windshield, hatchback 3rd brake light, and a clean Kouki Trueno Front bumper (also willing to trade mine + cash/???)

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