What happened here

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Doughboy_86
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What happened here

Postby Doughboy_86 » Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:14 pm

What happened to the 4ag forum? This place use to be popin back in the days why is it a ghost town now?

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jondee86
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Re: What happened here

Postby jondee86 » Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:57 am

A good question, and you yourself provide part of the answer. A forum
is a place where people can get together to discuss matters in general or
share information on particular matters of interest. The vitality of a forum
reflects the level of interest and participation of its members.

And taking you as an example (and I'm not dissing you, just making a point)
I see that you have been a member since Oct 2015 and you have made three
posts which includes your post to this topic. Club4AG has nearly 50,000
registered members. If each registered member made only one post each
year that would be 136 new posts a day, but we don't get near that number.

The club membership is full of ghosts... members who have moved on to
other interests. Nothing wrong with that as the same thing happens with all
clubs where there is no annual subscription to pay. I don't know how many
active members there are but I would guess just a few hundred. And there
are likely several thousand who visit regularly to search for information or
check to see whats new without logging in.

The number of new registrations has dropped which can be put down to a
number of factors, mostly relating to new technology, lifestyle and changes
in the way that information is exchanged. Forums provide a resource that
gives practical answers based on the experience and wisdom of members.
Google seeks to become the source of all knowledge but bots do not have
much (if any) ability to distinguish between truth and BS. Facebook spreads
misinformation and uninformed opinion, It will not help you fix your car.

In the end we all make our own decisions, change our interests, get new
responsibilities and live our lives the best we can. Forums are like that set
of encyclopaedias that your parents or grandparents had on a shelf. They
were a great source of information before the internet came along. Now it is
the turn of forums to be supplanted by newer forms of information transfer.

Cheers... jondee86
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.

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Re: What happened here

Postby Jayrdee » Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:24 am

I think a big part of it is social media.

Forums will never go away just because of the amount of organized information that's on there, but for general chit chat, sharing pictures, etc. thats all done on Facebook/Instagram now. Its just easier. It doesn't help that all the original photo hosting sites suck ass now either, leaving broken links all over forums. I could see this being a big blow to all the OG members who had tons of pictures on there.

Plus there's already so much info on forums that its more of a library than a chat room. A simple 4ag question will already have an answer after a quick google search.

BUT, I'm a firm believer that they'll make a comeback if we make it happen. No one likes hanging out in an empty bar, you know?
Thats why I try and be active on here so hopefully some lurker sees the conversation and is more prompted to join.
[I have no idea what I'm doing]
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jondee86
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Re: What happened here

Postby jondee86 » Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:27 pm

Social media are commercially driven with the aim of pushing advertising to the
widest possible audience. They employ the most sophisticated methods to make
it seem like they are providing a service when in reality they are harvesting your
data to better target you with advertising. There is nothing fundamentally wrong
with any of this until they start using the propaganda techniques developeded by
Goebbels and used by the Nazi Party to spread lies and preach hatred.

To anyone with the ability to distinguish right from wrong and recognise BS even
when it is delivered by a suit with a straight face, this should be seen as a WTF
moment !!!! Time to put down your phone and step back into the real world.

Forums the world over are losing ground to the speed with which you can get a
response to a question on social media. No writing a post and waiting a couple of
days for someone who actually knows what they are talking about to post an answer.
Nope... the answers will start coming in just minutes. Only problem is that the
speed of the answer is very often only exceeded by the stupidity of the response.
Often a reply will only be there to say... "I haven't got a fkn clue ???".

If a person buys into the speed thing and does not care about the quality of the
information they receive, then that is their decision. And since using social media
appears to be popular and addictive, there is no doubt that it draws car people
away from forums. One AE86 forum that I have been a member of for quite a few
years has not had a single post in the tech section for more than three months.
Winter is always slow but.... wut ????

A few years ago a small group of enthuiasts from this forum set up their own
club with a view to drawing in the hardcore AE86 guys from their local area. The
club was launched with a flourish but when I checked earlier today neither their
website of Fb page had anything posted since earlu 2018. It was a brave attempt
but apathy most likely ground them down.

These days I believe the future of motorsport and restoration lies with grassroots
clubs with clubrooms and a bar and a bunch of dedicated people on the committee.
Getting face to face with other enthusiasts over a beer and then going out and
competing in events or show & shine displays... that will always beat sitting at a
keyboard or fondling a phone.

Cheers... jondee86

PS: I do enjoy the chance for a good rant while waiting for Santa :)
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.

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sirdeuce
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Re: What happened here

Postby sirdeuce » Wed Dec 25, 2019 7:08 pm

One thing I haven't heard is of the people that moved on to something else. How many of the old 4AGE crowd moved onto Genesis, BMW, et. .
One shot, one kill.

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Re: What happened here

Postby jondee86 » Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:39 am

Good point. While I don't know specific numbers, I can see a trend that has been
obviuous in this country (and others) for some time. As the supply of old school
Toyotas dried up, prices for Corollas, Coronas and Celicas all began pushing into
a price range where they began competing with later model cars from several other
brands. Most notably the small 3-Series BMW's, Civics, Subarus and Nissans.

Kids want a car to drive and not all of them want to spend nights and weekends
fixing rust and broken exhausts. So when you could buy a decent condition 15
year old car for less than the price of a beat up 30 year old AE86 (and keep your
parents happy), the BMW 320i became a popular choice. That's how supply and
demand works :)

Cheers... jondee86

PS: MERRY XMAS to y'all :D
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.

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Re: What happened here

Postby sirdeuce » Thu Dec 26, 2019 9:44 am

I like to keep to my roots, one reason I'm still here. I have a Mazdaspeed3 and an E36. Bimmers come and go, the Speed3 has been delegated to my wife, but my AW11 will never be left behind. I learned my lesson with my AE86s and AE82s, can't not mention my Toyota 4X4s. I guess the little MR2 means more to me than either Corolla model.

PS: Bah Hummbug ( I can't be happy with the holidays, the death toll ruins the whole concept for me. I celebrate the day after as I have survived yet another holiday)
One shot, one kill.

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Re: What happened here

Postby jondee86 » Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:00 pm

Well I put my life savings into a brand new AE86 in 1985 and had one in the garage
continuously until this year. If I had more garage space I would still have one, but due
to circumstances beyond my control I had to reduce my fleet. As outlined in an earlier
post I would have liked to maintain the Toyota tradition, only an ISF had too many
doors and cost more than I was willingto invest in a "hobby" car. Now I will spend a bit
of time with the BM and see how I like it in six months.

Yesh... people killing themselves (and others) on the road is a problem all over. Our
government has decided to try and solve the problem by brute force. Hundreds more
speed cameras, police radars and lowered speed limits. Soon we will all be forced into
driving self-guided electric mobility vehicles governed to a walking pace. I shall look
into the possibility of buying a horse :)

Cheers... jondee86
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.

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Re: What happened here

Postby sirdeuce » Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:54 pm

Horse would be to fast, maybe an ox or water buffalo would be more acceptable.
One shot, one kill.

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Re: What happened here

Postby jondee86 » Thu Dec 26, 2019 11:05 pm

Here is a good example of how the government uses statistics to demonise
speeding drivers and to justify introducing ever more draconian measures
capture and penalise them.

Image

We are constantly reminded that drugs, alcohol and driving don't mix, and that
driving under the influence of drugs or alcohol dramatically increases your chances
of having an accident. So it is not unreasonable to say that in the case of the
propportion of accidents that involve both speed and drugs/alcohol, without the
drugs/alcohol most of these drivers would most likely not have been speeding
and would not have had an accident.

So one alternative commentary would be that speeding alone was a factor in only
15% of all crashes, rather than lumping drugs, alchol and speeding all together to
come up with a 44% figure. And WFT is up with totally ignoring the impact of "other
causes" ?? Is it just that technology exists to easily identify and penalise speeding
drivers so hell we'll just ignore those other 56% ??

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending anyone who drives under the influence of
drink or drugs, speeds in urban areas, crosses the centreline on curves or who
overtakes in the face of oncoming traffic or generally drives like a dick. But
taking the pleasure out of driving for the vast majority of law abiding citizens
just to try and trap the small percentage of dicks (who don't care anyway) is over
the top.

Cheers... jondee86
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.

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Re: What happened here

Postby Doughboy_86 » Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:24 pm

I think forums are the way to go in my opinion. Yes there is google but, the quality of information is not there like jondee86 said. I wish we can keep adding viable information to this once great Yota community that I'm hoping can be revived. No one cares so share there true struggles like, will a 2JZ fit in a 86 or simple tips and tricks to help the Yota guys work on there cars a little easier. Getting those responses from other member with true on hand knowledge. Seeing something start off as a simple question and flourish in to a research group brings tears to my eyes.

Yeah jayrdee IG and Facebook are a lot easier to share photos,videos, and chit chatbut, there is no true depth to it, it's just ok seen that whats next with no sense of true knowledge. As you can all see that guests do come on here for information so the yota community is still kicking but, they just ops out of joining and contributing. So it comes down to this, how the F### do we keep this S### going?

What about all your brothers that are still in the Yota game sirdeuce? did you forget about us? your just going to leave us for that euro trash lmfao jk bro i totally get you igot a E38 yes its not fast but, damn is it smooth. People probably did move on the bigger and better things but, "I like to keep to my roots". We need more people like this and, to remember where they came from. I Mean come on who doesn't like those sexy line off any Yota. I think all Toyota car's and truck's should be able to have a home on this forumnew and old. Yes its club4AG but for me its more like an all Toyota community and 100% we need to find a good host for picture's/video's.

Well hope you guys enjoyed my 2 cents for the day lol unite and gnite! :)

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Re: What happened here

Postby sirdeuce » Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:57 pm

I've found that 99.9% of all fatal crashes are a direct result of stupidity! Regardless of how fast or high the operator is. What scares me more than fast or high drivers is distracted drivers, especially the cell phone crowd. I've been hit twice by these geniuses.
One shot, one kill.

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Re: What happened here

Postby jondee86 » Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:45 pm

Yes... I cringe when when I read reports like this one...
A Hamilton woman who died while texting and driving sent 19 texts within a 45 minute
period leading up to the crash, police revealed at an inquest into her death today.

(name withheld), 37, was killed at Piarere on State Highway in December 2018 as she
travelled back from a funeral in Rotorua. Initial police investigations indicated that
she may have been texting just before colliding head-on with another car, carrying
three young women.

Talking on the phone while driving is bad enough, but at least the driver can keep
their eyes on the road. Texting diverts a drivers attention away from the road and
those few seconds of inattention are literally the difference between life and death.

I don't think any phone call or text is worth dying for...

Cheers... jondee86
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.

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Re: What happened here

Postby sirdeuce » Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:12 pm

I know what was in her texts. Hmmm, that was a fun funeral, I wonder how mine will be?
One shot, one kill.

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Re: What happened here

Postby jondee86 » Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:30 pm

I have no problem with Natural Selection other than the fact that the ones selected
by Nature to be removed from the gene pool tend to take other innocent parties with
them. Thankfully, in the above example the three people in the other car survived
their injuries.

Technology can be a wonderful thing when used for good and worthwhile purposes.
However, there is a lot of evidence to support the idea that making cars safer has
lead to a deterioration in driving standards. Cocooned in a warm, comfortable, quiet
environment and protected by seatbelts and airbags, the driver is insulated from the
fact that he/she is in control of two tons of steel travelling at speed. They feel safe
and in contol... but it is the Laws of Physics that are in control.

Momentum, inertia, friction... who dat ? says mom when she is late to get the kids
to school, of pop when he stayed after work to have a few beers with the boys and is
now running late for his dinner. Add darkness, rain, anger, heavy traffic or speed
to the mix and physics gonna spoil your day. Physics don't care how old you are, how
much your car cost or what church you go to... the Laws are the same for everyone.

So drive safe this holiday season. Put some slow blues on the radio, keep your eyes
on the road and don't stress being a few minutes behind schedule. Better to arrive
late than not at all.

Cheers... jondee86
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.

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Re: What happened here

Postby sirdeuce » Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:31 pm

Yep, yer right there, people like that big, safe feeling car. That sense of security tends to reduce the responsibility need. These days people just care less about anything. It's scary! Most of the people I come across haven't a clue of what a car is or is capable of. My dad used to say, "Make the cars out of paper mache' or put the driver's seat on the front bumper and people would learn to pay attention and drive safe." Now with all these collision avoidance devices and (shudder) self driving cars people have no need to care. Have you seen the video of the sleeping driver in the Tesla?
These days there is nowhere safe. Trust no one is a very valid life philosophy.
One shot, one kill.

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Re: What happened here

Postby jondee86 » Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:07 am

sirdeuce wrote:These days there is nowhere safe. Trust no one is a very valid life philosophy.

I rode motorcycles for more than 20 years and when the only thing between you
and some serious pain is the clothes you are wearing, you quickly learn to treat
all other traffic as if they are going to do something unexpected and/or stupid.
Just because you have the right of way does not mean that you get it. And just
because you have your headlight on does not mean that car drivers will see you.

These days the standard of driving in the city has deteriorated to the point that
I drive my car with the same caution that I once reserved for my bikes. Expect
the unexpected and drive according to the conditions.

Cheers... jondee86
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.

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Re: What happened here

Postby totta crolla » Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:43 pm

My Corolla has laid dormant for over a Year now and I feel guilty about that. Having drifted to the dark side of FWD and a different manufacturer l can honestly say that I miss this forum almost as much as my Corolla, there is just so much knowledge and information here and long may it continue. Sorry to hear that Jondee sounds like he no longer owns and AE86??

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Re: What happened here

Postby jondee86 » Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:56 pm

Yusss... the AE86 has gone to a good home in Australia. Changing circumstances
meant that I had more cars than I had garage space, and one of them had to go.
That little car had kept me amused for nearly 20 years and despite the busted
knuckles, late nights and empty pockets, I have to say it was a great journey and
I was sorry to see her go. But the relationship had run its course and now I have a
a younger fraulein to dominate my spare time :P

Cheers... jondee86
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.

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Re: What happened here

Postby jondee86 » Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:54 pm

Getting back on topic... I have noticed in recent years that certain forums get
quiet during the winter months. I read that in some countries it is usual for owners
of "summer" cars to park them up and revert to using a more practical vehical as
a daily in the snow and ice months. Maybe that accounts for the seasonal reduction
in the number of posts ?

Cheers... jondee86
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.

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Re: What happened here

Postby oldeskewltoy » Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:40 am

I keep pluggen' away........ ;)
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

Building a great engine takes knowing the end... before you begin :ugeek:

Enjoy Life... its the only one you get!

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Re: What happened here

Postby jondee86 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:26 pm

As I sit here enjoying the afternoon sunshine I have been pondering the meaning of life
and where automotive technology is heading. As cars become more and more expensive
and more and more technically advanced, where will this leave the college kids, tinkerers
and DIY types who tend to be the people resurrecting and improving old Corollas ???

My "new" car doesn't even have a dipstick for checking the oil. Instead there is an oil level
sensor and by fiddling with buttons and switches on the indicator stalk, you can read the
oil level on the dash display :roll: Who is gonna troubleshoot that when it stops working
on a 12 year old car ? Why do we even need that level of complexity ?

It seems to me that the car manufacturers are intent on making cars so complicated that
the only people capable of fixing them are highly trained technicians with sophisticated
electronic diagnostic aids. New cars are tying everything into the CAN-BUS system, so if
a window lift stops working you have to take it to the dealer for a fix. The trans and engine
are computer controlled and if any small fault puts you into "limp mode" you are off to the
dealer to donate a limb for diagnostic and repair work.

It's all in the name of safety, economy, emissions etc., and it is a user pays deal. The
next generation of self-driving electric and electronic marvels is being forced down our
throats simply because the technology has been developed and getting it mandated into
vehicles for "safety" reasons is a sure way of turning a profit on any such developments.

Manufacturers of exotic cars are in a absurd race to see who can claim the most hp or the
highest speed. Does anyone really need a 300mph 1000hp sportscar ? Youtube is loaded with
videos demonstrating that such vehicles are not a good match with the driving skills of the
people who can actually afford them. So I don't think that the drivers of lifted trucks are
the only ones compensating for their shortcomingS :D

Cheers... jondee86
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.

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Re: What happened here

Postby oldeskewltoy » Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:25 am

jondee86 wrote: Does anyone really need a 300mph 1000hp sportscar ? Youtube is loaded with
videos demonstrating that such vehicles are not a good match with the driving skills of the
people who can actually afford them. So I don't think that the drivers of lifted trucks are
the only ones compensating for their shortcomingS :D

Cheers... jondee86

:lol: :lol:

Hmmm, me thinks along the lines of the beige cargo shorts gang...... ;)


jondee86 wrote:My "new" car doesn't even have a dipstick for checking the oil. Instead there is an oil level
sensor and by fiddling with buttons and switches on the indicator stalk, you can read the
oil level on the dash display :roll: Who is gonna troubleshoot that when it stops working
on a 12 year old car ? Why do we even need that level of complexity ?

It seems to me that the car manufacturers are intent on making cars so complicated that
the only people capable of fixing them are highly trained technicians with sophisticated
electronic diagnostic aids. New cars are tying everything into the CAN-BUS system, so if
a window lift stops working you have to take it to the dealer for a fix. The trans and engine
are computer controlled and if any small fault puts you into "limp mode" you are off to the
dealer to donate a limb for diagnostic and repair work.

It's all in the name of safety, economy, emissions etc., and it is a user pays deal. The
next generation of self-driving electric and electronic marvels is being forced down our
throats simply because the technology has been developed and getting it mandated into
vehicles for "safety" reasons is a sure way of turning a profit on any such developments.



Cheers... jondee86



My wife's knees are no longer able to drive Grunt, so I recently sold my 1989 Corolla All-Trac, and we bought a new Mazda3 awd

a LOT of nannies in there.......

Image
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

Building a great engine takes knowing the end... before you begin :ugeek:

Enjoy Life... its the only one you get!

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Re: What happened here

Postby jondee86 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:09 pm

Yes, it seems that now the technology genie has been let out of the bottle, we are
doomed to be at its mercy for all eternity :(

The cycle is like this...
- first scientists discover a new technological miracle (LED's are a great example)
- next product engineers develop potential applications for the technology
- then marketing departments research the most profitable products.
- manufacturers flood the market with novelty products to create acceptance.
- then mainstream manufacturers start adding "trendy" features to their products.

Hence we now have homes and car audio equipment with buttons instead of knobs.
Battery powered everything. Remote controls for everything. Electric kettles with
digital readouts to tell you when they are boiling. Smarter phones and dumber users.
The genie has us by the balls and he ain't letting go any time soon !!!!

Cheers... jondee86
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
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Re: What happened here

Postby Jeonsah » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:05 am

Totally agree.

However if you speak this out loud, you will be demonized and pigeon holed. haha

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Re: What happened here

Postby jondee86 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:20 pm

If it is my destiny to be a voice in the wilderness, then so be it :)

There is a general misunderstanding of the "new and improved and better for you"
type phrases used when promoting and advertising products. What this often means
is that we have changed the shape of the bottle or the colour of the box, but there
is no tangible benefit to the consumer. These "cosmetic" changes are designed to
squeeze a bit more profit out of products that are nearing the end of production.
The product is unchanged and the benefits (if any) are unchanged.

Sometimes, there will be an innovation or idea that genuinely changes the design or
performance of a product and as a result there can be a real benefit to the end user.
However, that is unusual. Most changes are for the benefit of the manufacturer to
cut the cost of production while maintaining the same (or even increasing) the selling
price to boost profit margins.

I haven't seen it written down in exactly these words, but I believe the first Law of
Marketing is CONSUMERS ARE GULLIBLE. And for anyone who needs reminding...
Gullibility is a failure of social intelligence in which a person is easily tricked or
manipulated into an ill-advised course of action. It is closely related to credulity, which
is the tendency to believe unlikely propositions that are unsupported by evidence.

And the real problem here is that consumers are fooled into believing that change
equals improvement. Consumers should just step back and ask themselves this one
question before falling for the hype... "What practical benefit does this new and
improved product have for ME compared to the previous version?".

And if the only answer you can up with is "but I want one the same colour as my friend..."
then punch yourself in the face, keep your old car/phone/shoes etc, and save the cash
for something that actually has some practical benefit for you or your family :)
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.

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Re: What happened here

Postby Moto-P » Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:41 pm

This is a great discussion.
I've got lots to say too, as I've been directly watching traffic in and out of this site, as well as automotive trends and consumer base from a industry view as well.

Lots have happened in the years since internet forum was a gathering place for many. And Club4AG was one of the few on this topic since the start of internet history. In 1998, there was no social media, and there were very few web-hosts and people harnessing the internet in general. It's been really a fast ride the last 30 years on how things changed.

For Club4AG, it was birthed at the same time videos and magazines from Japan started traveling abroad, on DVD and print.
At the same time westerners in the USA and Europe embraced Japanese tuner cars, we were already on the internet, capable of sharing discussions in English Language which was rare at the time. So, it grew fast as search engines drew Club4AG to center stage for anything having to do with tuning old Toyota cars. In time many other websites started and grew too. But none really competed each other and what was posted in one forum would get posted to all of the others as the people who visited these colloquial sites were overlapping group consisting of the same bunch around the world.

The BIGGEST significant change came with the advent of Facebook. It simply became the portal where people spend much of their internet days. It was not a hobby centric portal but a social site where everyone was using it to communicate day to day needs and emotions. It quickly sucked out all the attention from every forum in the world, and on Facebook a new batch of groups by the thousands opened for much more immediate and timely discussions. Slowly the forums dwindled in numbers. Many of us still come here for detailed matters and specific things, as that sort of thing is not something social media platforms cater well to. That is the big difference though.

In 2002, at the peak of Club4AG traffic, there were 150,000 posts per year, and 300,000 unique visits a month. Today, there is less than 1/60th of that, as most general conversations of day to day has moved to the social media platforms.

Also, society of car hobbyists have changed a lot too. Instead of really deep hardcore tuners being a small minority and not many people in between, JDM tuning has become a very general and shallow hobby enjoyed by millions. Much of the conversations today are general talks of day to day life of being in the hobby. In fact, what I see is that the number of really hard core AE86 tuners haven't really changed in the last 20 years. Only that today, we are buried among millions of others from all walks of life enjoying "tuning" at a much shallower levels and as more a fashionable trend, roaring with talks on Facebook and Instagram. But much of these aren’t about things like fine specifications of spark plugs, or porting heads, or ECU parameters on specific injectors. We are still here, just harder to find each other while many of us tend to a huge noise that roar like waves of oceans on day to day lives.

Yes, old Toyota has become something not so easy to maintain or cheap, as prices skyrocket and parts supplies diminish exponentially.
Yes, the new generations are going electric and commuter controlled.
Yes, the internet occupies a lot of our time on things other than cars.
Yes, no one is interested around us who we think should be interested.
Yes, we have far more stringent laws and costs against tuning cars in most of the modern world.

But no, we have not disappeared and I am here for anyone who has time to chat by the fireplace.
I really appreciate all of the folks new and old, who visit this site for the very reason it was created. To talk about Toyota cars.

Thanks everyone!
Moto Miwa
founder, Club4AG

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Jeonsah
Club4AG Expert
Posts: 441
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:44 pm

Re: What happened here

Postby Jeonsah » Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:19 pm

Thank you Moto for keeping this website up!

Any chance of some new club4ag stickers/attire?

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jondee86
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Posts: 2654
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:21 pm
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

Re: What happened here

Postby jondee86 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:01 pm

Moto-P wrote:Yes, the new generations are going electric and commuter controlled.
Yes, the internet occupies a lot of our time on things other than cars.
Yes, no one is interested around us who we think should be interested.
Yes, we have far more stringent laws and costs against tuning cars in most of the modern world.

I don't think there has ever been a time when governments and dictators did not seek
to single out "non-conforming" minorities and turn their full weight against them. Even
today when it might be expected that our rulers should have learned something from
2000 years of persecution, crusades, genocide and repression, nothing has changed.

The goal off all governments is to have total control over their subjects. Government
policies are devoted to achieving this aim... reading your communications, listening
to your phone calls, monitoring your position and activities are the tools that are being
employed. Social media have paved the way and by putting a cellphone in every pocket
and technology has given governments the means to achieve total control. Governments
are now working to create the legislative framework that will allow them to access all
the data collected by ISP's and social media under the guise of "national security".

Current events have been an unexpected bonus as the forcible introduction of suspect
technology like facial recognition and contact tracing, has allowed them to gain a degree
of acceptability that they otherwise would not have received. Draconian measures to
limit and control the spread of a virus have been implemented, and do not think even
for one second that these laws will be repealed when the current pandemic is over.

So a little bit of background there as to why "hot rodding" your car will soon become a
thing of the past. Modifying your car identifies you as a non-conformist, and governments
do not like people who do not conform. So, aided and abetted by the electronic and auto
industries, cars are being designed to make it much more difficult for the average car
enthusiast to modify his or her vehicle. Soon customizing your car will be restricted to
choosing the color and selecting options from the dealer provided list. Anything beyond
that will be outlawed for "public safety" reasons.

And this dear reader, is how all the freedoms we once enjoyed get eroded away.

Cheers... jondee86
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.

Nick94tt
Club4AG Expert
Posts: 223
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:43 am

Re: What happened here

Postby Nick94tt » Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:01 pm

jondee86 wrote:I don't think there has ever been a time when governments and dictators did not seek
to single out "non-conforming" minorities and turn their full weight against them. Even
today when it might be expected that our rulers should have learned something from
2000 years of persecution, crusades, genocide and repression, nothing has changed.


On the governmental side - there are brief moments of selfless action and societal development followed by long periods of self serving growth and gluttony. The reason most folks think 99% of politicians are in it to get reelected is pretty well grounded in statistics and recorded fact. I'd argue it persists almost entirely through apathy.

On the "religious" side of things... As someone raised catholic that has read the Koran, Torah, spent time learning Zen and Buddhism...

I came the belief that all of religion boils down to a one liner.

"Be comfortable with who you are and don't be a dick,"

Feels like a pretty solid place to be.

For reference - I was the same 10yr old kid at Sunday school that asked why we had a moral majority when the church killed more folks than that angry mustached fellow. Angry penguins ensued. :lol:

jondee86 wrote:
The goal off all governments is to have total control over their subjects. Government
policies are devoted to achieving this aim... reading your communications, listening
to your phone calls, monitoring your position and activities are the tools that are being
employed. Social media have paved the way and by putting a cellphone in every pocket
and technology has given governments the means to achieve total control. Governments
are now working to create the legislative framework that will allow them to access all
the data collected by ISP's and social media under the guise of "national security".


I honestly figured nothing I did was private. They want to know my redtube history, deal with the consequences of trying to unsee it. :lol:

Never been the type to broadcast opportunities to get arrested.

Is it a basic violation of civil rights and common decency? Yep. Am I going to change it without months of uninterrupted protesting globally and changing human nature? No.

jondee86 wrote:So a little bit of background there as to why "hot rodding" your car will soon become a
thing of the past. Modifying your car identifies you as a non-conformist, and governments
do not like people who do not conform. So, aided and abetted by the electronic and auto
industries, cars are being designed to make it much more difficult for the average car
enthusiast to modify his or her vehicle. Soon customizing your car will be restricted to
choosing the color and selecting options from the dealer provided list. Anything beyond
that will be outlawed for "public safety" reasons.

And this dear reader, is how all the freedoms we once enjoyed get eroded away.

Cheers... jondee86


The auto industry is working toward a service monopoly without much prompting... (It's about the only way they make money outside of financing) Look at John Deere... Folks are having to learn to hack just to repair their farm equipment due to proprietary software. It's hack you tractor, or trailer it a hundred miles for thousands of dollars for a $200 part that only the dealer can register

Admittedly though, the image of a frustrated old.law abiding farmer in overalls and a straw hat out there pirating tractor operating systems is really f*cking funny. :lol:

Fortunately (or not), we have enough easily manipulated idiots here in the US to show up armed at state buildings to protest the above golden rule - not being a dick.

I quietly hope they'll serve as a bit of a buffer for anything too major. :lol:

I just don't expect much on the investment there. :mrgreen:

Also, woot for this thread randomly getting heavy. *secures tinfoil hat*

Erosion is a great word for it. Undeniable force slowly grinding away over time.

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