TRD Gasket, Stock 4age

carina4age
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TRD Gasket, Stock 4age

Postby carina4age » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:44 am

Hey,

my 16v bigport blew headgasket few days ago and i want to swap it to .8mm trd head gasket to have little bit more power. My engine is completely stock but im going to get the head resurfaced. I just want to know is it possible to use that 0.8 trd gasket with stock engine?

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oldeskewltoy
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Re: TRD Gasket, Stock 4age

Postby oldeskewltoy » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:05 am

carina4age wrote:Hey,

my 16v bigport blew headgasket few days ago and i want to swap it to .8mm trd head gasket to have little bit more power. My engine is completely stock but im going to get the head resurfaced. I just want to know is it possible to use that 0.8 trd gasket with stock engine?


yes it is possible to use it on a stock engine. The issue might end up being that while the head has a nice fresh surface, the top of the block isn't. This may cause less than adequate sealing. If you can get a straight edge and check it and find no high spots(or low spots) in the top of the block, then it may seal properly
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

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Re: TRD Gasket, Stock 4age

Postby carina4age » Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:12 am

Yes, i will check top of the block. Do you know what is the correct tightening torque for that gasket? I have new Toyota OEM headbolts. Also, will the timing marks line up with thinner gasket?

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Re: TRD Gasket, Stock 4age

Postby oldeskewltoy » Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:15 pm

carina4age wrote:Yes, i will check top of the block. Do you know what is the correct tightening torque for that gasket? I have new Toyota OEM headbolts. Also, will the timing marks line up with thinner gasket?


Use pattern in FSM. TRD recommended 48ft/#s(650±20 kg・cm). I recommend doing it in 3 passes: 25, 36, 48
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

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Re: TRD Gasket, Stock 4age

Postby allencr » Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:09 am

New bolts won't be as smooth, thread & head, as old so you might actually be tightening it less then before.
Yes, thin gasket will retard the timing, head cut even more. How much? IDK.
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Re: TRD Gasket, Stock 4age

Postby carina4age » Mon Mar 22, 2021 6:39 am

I also dropped poncams in the engine. Now its running. Tomei says that idle remains smooth but my idles very lumpy and shaky, pulls good though i think, better than before. Have i messed something up or is it what it is? I tried my best to adjust the ignition timing, but the mark on the pulley bounced all over the place because the idle was hilarious.

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Re: TRD Gasket, Stock 4age

Postby oldeskewltoy » Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:22 am

carina4age wrote:I also dropped poncams in the engine. Now its running. Tomei says that idle remains smooth but my idles very lumpy and shaky, pulls good though i think, better than before. Have i messed something up or is it what it is? I tried my best to adjust the ignition timing, but the mark on the pulley bounced all over the place because the idle was hilarious.


Unless you add adjustable timing pulleys..., and or do more inside the engine.... it is what it is.......

You could do a compression test, it might reveal more. By the way, when you had the head off, did you have a machine shop check it, and do anything needed to refresh it - valve job for example.


A big part of why it is lopey has to do with cam duration, compression, and management. The Poncams are longer in duration then the stock cams, the TRD gasket didn't add enough static compression, and finally the signals the engine management is getting are outside of normal operating parameters. "Pulls good" - likely means in WOT, the parameters fit better.
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

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Re: TRD Gasket, Stock 4age

Postby carina4age » Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:07 am

Yes, machine shop checked the valves and they machined 0.1mm off. I also replaced piston rings because it was burning oil a lot.

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Re: TRD Gasket, Stock 4age

Postby jondee86 » Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:08 pm

Are the PON cams designed to "drop in" using the OEM cam pulleys and the OEM cam
timing marks ? By that I mean that the knock pins in the cams have been indexed by
Tomei to set the cams at their design timing when used with the OEM pulleys and
timing marks. If this has not been done then you will need adjustable cam pulleys
so that you can set the cam timing using a timing wheel.

With longer cams you will have more overlap and that means you will get low V.E.
and more exhaust gas reversion at idle. You may have to raise the idle speed to 1000
or 1100rpm to help smooth the idle. If you have a vacuum gauge attach it to the inlet
manifold and advance the ignition timing by turning the distributor until you get the
highest (most) vacuum reading. Then back off (retard) the timing by around 1"Hg
and reset the idle speed.

Hopefully this will smooth the idle enough for you to get a proper ignition timing
reading from the crank. When setting the idle by vacuum be sure to check for any
pinging or knocking under acceleration when driving. If pinging is heard retard the
ignition timing until you cannot hear pinging when accelerating hard.

Cheers... jondee86
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Re: TRD Gasket, Stock 4age

Postby carina4age » Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:18 am

Yes, Poncams are "drop-in" cams, they have knock pins just like stock cams. Should the fuel pressure regulator vacuum hose go straight to intake manifold? Mine goes to some kind of vsv first and then to intake manifold? I mean my low end torque is completely gone, i know that cams affects that but still. If i go WOT in low rpms it just makes loud intake noise and acceleration is very weak. I never had driven anything but stock engine so this is all new and confusing to me.

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Re: TRD Gasket, Stock 4age

Postby jondee86 » Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:26 pm

Sounds to me like your either your cam timing is wrong or your ignition timing is way
out. You need to take the top two parts of the timing belt cover off. Then turn the
engine over by hand until the #1 piston is at TDC on the compression stroke. Check...

1. That the timing mark on the crank pulley lines up with the dimple.
2. That the dimples on the cam pulleys line up with the marks on the back plate.
3. That the cam pulleys are correctly installed on the knock pins.

Image

If those are all correct, remove and reinstall the distributor. Do this with the cap off
the distributor. Before starting look at the distributor with the cap on and when the
distributor is sitting with the fixing "ears" horizontal as it would be on the engine.
Lock in your memory where the pin for the #1 plug wire is on the cap.

Now take the cap off and stab the distributor according to the FSM. When it is all the
way into the engine with the ears horizontal, the brass bit on the end of the rotor
should be at the position of the #1 pin that you have memorised :) If the rotor is too
far one way or the other, ease the distributor out until you can turn the rotor left or
right one tooth on the gear, and push it back in.

The PON cams do not have radical timing so there is no reason why you should not be
able to get a decent idle. And yes, the FPR does get its vacuum signal from the intake
manifold. There is usually a small black fitting with two or more spigots for connecting
the FPR and MAP sensor hoses.

Cheers... jondee86
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
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Re: TRD Gasket, Stock 4age

Postby carina4age » Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:08 pm

I checked timing belt twice, i changed new oem belt, tensioner and thr spring. I dont think that it can be the dizzy, i checked timing with the timing light, and it was bouncing around the 10 degree mark on the cover. And i had the e1 and te1 jumpered. And i think i have to adjust my tps. Is there any possibility that stock cam gears are not same on both cams??

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Re: TRD Gasket, Stock 4age

Postby jondee86 » Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:21 am

The cam pulleys should be identical. The only difference is how they are installed
with regard to the knock pins. Refer to the above sketch. On the intake side the knock
pin is at around 11 o'clock in the first slot and on the exhaust side it is at around
5 o'clock in the second slot.

- Did you check the valve clearances and adjust the shims to get the correct settings ?
- Can you do a compression test ?
- Not got two plug leads mixed up :)
- Can you see what happens if you rotate the distributor as far as it will go in both
directions. Does the idle improve when you rotate the distributor in one direction ?

Cheers... jondee86
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persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
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Re: TRD Gasket, Stock 4age

Postby carina4age » Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:54 am

I checked the knock pins and they were in correct positions. I checked valve clearances yes. Yes i have compression tester, might test compression next weekend. Plug leads, im not sure :D my coil lead is running very close to valve cover and other plug leads so maybe there is spark jumping somewhere? I can try to rotate dizzy, turning counterclockwise it goes advanced, right?

Here is a video of my idlehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVqjnNnTNME

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Re: TRD Gasket, Stock 4age

Postby jondee86 » Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:46 pm

Best way to check for spark tracking or jumping to ground is when it is dark. Sparks
are much easier to see at night. Idle sounds like an engine with a "hot" cam should.
Fine tuning the ignition timing can smooth it out a little, and adjustable cam gears
can can be used to open up the lobe centres a little to reduce valve overlap. But most
guys like a little bit of lope on N.A. engines with cams... I know I do :D

Cheers... jondee86
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persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
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carina4age
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Re: TRD Gasket, Stock 4age

Postby carina4age » Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:10 pm

Well, so idle is normal i guess :D i think that the little shake just comes with the cams. I installed the FPR vacuum hose directly to intake manifold and that made low end little better. I guess that the vacuum switch valve was some kind of emission thing. I tried WOT acceleration yesterday in 2nd gear and it was quite weak at first but it goes like a maniac when TVIS opens. I think that adjustable cam gears will give me better low RPM acceleration. I have MS2, AEM wideband and coil on plug set waiting to be installed. Im going to install those when summer gets here in FInland, pretty cold outside now :D

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Re: TRD Gasket, Stock 4age

Postby jondee86 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:08 am

Never tried posting/linking a video before, so hope this works :) If it does it will
be a short video from my archives that shows what my car sounded like when it was
running N.A. with ITB's and cams. https://i.imgur.com/JsnZvRJ.mp4

Cheers... jondee86
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persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
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oldeskewltoy
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Re: TRD Gasket, Stock 4age

Postby oldeskewltoy » Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:56 am

carina4age wrote:I checked the knock pins and they were in correct positions. I checked valve clearances yes. Yes i have compression tester, might test compression next weekend. Plug leads, im not sure :D my coil lead is running very close to valve cover and other plug leads so maybe there is spark jumping somewhere? I can try to rotate dizzy, turning counterclockwise it goes advanced, right?

Here is a video of my idlehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVqjnNnTNME



That does sound like a 4AG with a mild camshaft.

carina4age wrote:I tried WOT acceleration yesterday in 2nd gear and it was quite weak at first but it goes like a maniac when TVIS opens.


As I mentioned not a lot can be done unless you get the engines compression up
OST Cyl head porting, - viewtopic.php?f=22&t=300

Building a great engine takes knowing the end... before you begin :ugeek:

Enjoy Life... its the only one you get!